In an era where quantified self meets overstretched healthcare systems, more people are choosing to take their health into their own hands. And whole-body MRI is emerging as one of the most promising tools in this movement toward proactive, preventive healthcare. By detecting serious conditions early, often before symptoms appear, people are given a powerful window into their own health and biology.

OneMRI is making full-body screening accessible to everyday Australians. They provide whole-body MRI scans that check for over 500 potential conditions including cancer, aneurysms, spinal generation and liver disease. The scans take less than 60 minutes, are safe, radiation-free, available in both cities and regional areas and explained by medical professionals, without the jargon. With their seamless service, OneMRI is pioneering a category-defining approach that empowers people to take charge of their health. By building a personal health baseline, people are primed to make smarter, more informed decisions year on year.

Since launching last year, the team has already made waves. Including a recent feature on Channel 9’s Do You Want To Live Forever?, where OneMRI shared a glimpse into how this technology can save lives. While in the US, companies like Ezra are showing the promise of preventive health. Their recent acquisition by Function Health is a strong signal of just how quickly interest in this space is evolving.

That’s why we’re proud to invest in OneMRI’s seed round alongside our friends at OIF Ventures, TEN13, Antler, Salus VC, Archangel Ventures, Black Sheep Capital, Prtnr, Larsen Ventures and Tribe Global Ventures as they lead the way in building a new paradigm for personal health ownership and early detection.

What We Loved About the Opportunity

Founders Who’ve Built Unicorns And Game Changers

The OneMRI team has a rare and enviable track record, with a powerful combination of deep startup experience and commercial execution. Co-founders Vu Tran and Andrew Barnes (co-founders of the edtech unicorn Go1, most recently valued at $3b) bring world-class product and scaling capability. Joining them as co-founder and CEO is Gopi Sara, a commercial operator who previously led OfferFit’s expansion into Australia, landing enterprise deals with the likes of Foxtel and Medibank, bringing complementary firepower across product, brand and distribution. Together, this team brings a potent mix of technical, clinical and commercial rigour and experience. This isn’t a team theorising about healthcare disruption; they’re actively doing it, with the speed and tenacity we love to see.

A Ticket to Owning the Ecosystem (doing one thing brilliantly)

OneMRI knows that modern healthcare (especially in Australia) is made up of a vast network of interconnected yet often independent operators, including primary care physicians, specialists, allied health and diagnostic providers. Whereas our friends at Everlab are rebuilding and revolutionising the primary healthcare experience, OneMRI is carving out a focused niche along an alternate dimension: namely diagnostics and screenings, starting with whole-body MRs. Here, they can own the end-to-end customer experience without owning the hardware. They drive all patient acquisition, then partner with underutilised radiology clinics, providing their own GP and radiology reporting. This model of demand-generation, with an elevated service overlay, creates a differentiated and defensible position between two incumbents: traditional radiology clinics (who currently largely depend on Medicare referrals) and emerging virtual-first primary care startups like our friends at Everlab. OneMRI has picked a part of healthcare growing in importance and is focusing on exceptional delivery, wrapped in approachable and human-centred customer service.

Riding the Preventive Health Wave

A global shift is underway in how people contemplate their health; defaulting to reactive treatment is giving way to proactive prevention. From wearables that track sleep and heart rate to routine blood panels and full-body MRI scans, more and more consumers are turning to technology to monitor and manage their own health - with both enthusiasm and pride. This trend is further amplified by the rise of health and longevity-focused content from experts like Dr. Andrew Huberman and Dr. Peter Attia, whose evidence-based insights are reaching and inspiring millions. OneMRI sits squarely within this movement, offering the health-curious a powerful tool for early detection and health optimisation. Interest is growing not just among consumers, but also among forward-thinking clinicians who recognise the value of earlier, data-driven interventions.

Already, the OneMRI brand is beginning to break through into the mainstream, positioning itself as a frontrunner in the Australian market; and increasingly, on the global stage. Demand is growing not just locally but internationally, with patients flying in from Singapore, Hong Kong and New Zealand to access their services. And while full-body scans may once have seemed like a luxury for the elite, OneMRi is proving otherwise. Their bookings include executives and entrepreneurs, but also teachers, nurses, tradies and everyday people who are choosing to invest in their long-term health.

"People are more engaged in their health than ever before, with a clear shift in consumer preference from reactive to proactive care. While demand for whole-body MRIs is strong, access has been out of reach for many due to their location. I’m excited to be building a company that is rapidly scaling accessibility to this service at world-class standards across Australia and the Asia-Pacific, empowering individuals to take control of their health through early detection.”

CEO, Gopi Sara

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The Challenges We Saw

Can Whole-Body MRI Become Routine?

Full-body scanning is still a novel concept for many Australians. To completely crack the mainstream will require both consumer education and a shift in how people think about value in health. The open question is how deep consumer demand runs beyond the early adopters. While OneMRI’s early traction gives us confidence, we’re mindful that consumer education, trust and price sensitivity could all impact adoption. Encouragingly, the team has already begun seeing rebookings from early customers, hinting at possible repeat behaviours and a path to stronger LTVs. This is part of the team’s thesis - that by helping a consumer determine their baseline, OneMRI becomes an enduring partner for ongoing health tracking, management and optimisation.

Can Platform Dependency Become an Advantage?

While OneMRI is capital efficient by not owning hardware, it does create a platform dependency risk as they rely on third-party MRI clinic capacity. If clinics reprioritise or decide to compete, that could squeeze supply. That said, the team has already brought 16+ partner clinics online and is well ahead of initial expectations. Unsurprisingly, there seems to be a broader willingness among clinics to explore new monetisation paths beyond Medicare. On top of this, the team are also exploring white-labelling with the growing number of clinics offering end-to-end health concierge and longevity services. In this arrangement, OneMRI becomes a seamless hand-off point for providers looking for partners they can trust to deliver consistent quality and an exceptional experience. With multiple white-labelling relationships already established, they are already proving to be an attractive partner.

How We Built Conviction

We’re big believers that some of the best companies start with a clear, narrow wedge into a big, messy system. That’s exactly what OneMRI represents. A focused, high-value service. A standout founding team. A category with global momentum. And a brand that’s already earning national attention. We’re also taken by their vision to move beyond MRI into all preventive scanning and testing. After all, preventive health is not just a trend; it’s a structural shift in how we approach wellbeing. With OneMRI, we’re backing a company at the forefront of that transformation.

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Today’s healthcare systems are designed to treat illness, not prevent it; and they’re buckling under the weight of shortages. The toll is staggering: with preventable diseases projected to drain $30 trillion from the global economy by 2030. Not to mention the number of human lives diminished or lost too soon. Yet many of the world’s most deadly and debilitating conditions are preventable with early detection and timely action. In fact, heart disease, cancer, neurodegenerative disease (like Alzheimer’s) and ‘Foundational Diseases (often lifestyle related, like Type 2 diabetes) account for 80% of deaths in the Western world for those over 50 (assuming they are non-smokers. This doesn't have to be the case.

Everlab exists to shift the model; from reactive care to proactive health. They’re on a mission to make prevention the default and help people live healthier, longer lives. They’re built to scale, are fully automated and growing fast - and we couldn't be more excited to continue on their journey.

In just 12 months, Everlab has launched Australia's first truly complete digital health record, opened diagnostic operations in 3 states and launched a fast-growing corporate program. But their biggest achievement is the impact they’re having on their members' lives. Since launch, they’ve analysed over 300,000 different biomarkers results which has led to better diagnosis and treatment options for their members.

In 2023, we invested in Everlab’s pre-seed round and jumped at the chance to follow their journey as they improve health outcomes, at scale. Since then, we’ve watched the team continually build a rigorous and excellent product, harness an engaged community and forge robust partnerships, at pace. This next investment allows Everlab to take their powerful protocol, wrapped in an engaging experience, and make it available to millions more Australians. Here’s why we’re excited to stay connected to the Everlab story.

What we loved about the opportunity

A Serious and Worsening Problem, Meets a Cultural Shift

Despite spending over $100 billion annually (more than 15% of its total budget) Australia invests only a small fraction in preventative care, instead funnelling resources into treating symptoms once they’ve surfaced. As populations age and chronic illness becomes more widespread, this reactive model is proving unsustainable. Nearly 50% of Australians live with at least one chronic condition, and 30% with two or more, yet many of these could be delayed or prevented entirely through early detection and proactive intervention.

At the same time, a cultural shift is underway. Longevity and healthspan are moving into the mainstream, driven by voices like Peter Attia and Andrew Huberman, and consumers are increasingly motivated (and expecting) to take charge of their wellbeing. What began as the domain of early adopters, tracking sleep with Oura rings, experimenting with CGMs, or exploring the science behind ice baths, has quietly evolved into a broader cultural shift toward proactive, personalised health, without the need for extremes or wellness flexing. People no longer want one-size-fits-all medicine; they want personalised care, powered by real-time insights, data-led diagnostics and protocols tailored to their unique biology.

Everlab is the right player at the right time. Their model combines comprehensive diagnostics, personalised medical analysis and behavioural coaching to help people take control of their health. It’s a glimpse into how healthcare will be in the future: preventative, personalised and empowering by design.

Incredible Team that Executes At Pace

The powerhouse team of Marc Hermann (CEO), Sam Kothari (COO), Anshul Jain (CTO) and Dr Steven Lu (Chief Medical Officer) are no strangers to building and scaling category-defining businesses. Collectively, they’ve founded and led Foodspring, and played key roles scaling global successes like Rocket Internet, Airwallex and Freelancer.com. The team brings a proven track record of global growth, operational excellence and bold, market-defining innovation. With a background in scaling high-growth ventures across tech, healthcare and logistics, the team brings hands-on experience navigating complex, fast-moving environments. Their track record in scaling and building businesses gives them a clear view of what it takes to deliver exceptional execution, commercial impact and customer-first innovation in a category as dynamic and high-potential as preventative health.

Great Product, Strong Initial Traction.

Everlab launched an AI clinician copilot that enables real-time, hands-free access to clinical insights and actions. This tool accelerates clinician onboarding and supports scaling by reducing training time. Additionally, a new AI ingestion model now processes historical medical data with over 99% accuracy, significantly reducing manual verification and increasing operational efficiency.

The team launched with a private alpha, growing at an impressive 9x YOY. Customer love is equally as strong with over 70% of their members referring Everlab to their friends, without any incentive to do so. Their net promoter score is a staggering 80.17, and they have 4.9 stars, from 68 Trustpilot reviews (see below).

Questions we had for the team

What is the B2B space attractive to Everlab and how do you approach it?

The B2B market presents a significant growth opportunity for Everlab, as forward-thinking employers increasingly view employee health not as a perk, but as a strategic lever for performance, retention and culture. In fact, Companies with strong wellness programs report up to 22% lower turnover rates. As the connection between wellbeing and business outcomes becomes undeniable, proactive health solutions are rapidly moving up the corporate agenda.

Early adopters in this space don’t just support their teams, they also benefit from the halo effect of being seen as forward-thinking and genuinely committed to their people. It’s a powerful cultural signal that shows staff that their employer cares about their long-term wellbeing, not just their output. For Everlab, this shift represents a scalable, high-impact and accessible pathway to embed preventative care into the fabric of modern workplaces. This is not only meaningful for individuals, but measurable and commercially valuable for organisations.

What is your plan for international markets?

Over the next 6 months, Everlab are focusing on expanding our footprint throughout Australia. They have plans to launch their first New Zealand clinic within that timeframe and beyond that will aim for larger international expansion in 2026. Everlab’s right to win on a global stage comes from their model; they are the only team globally that has built a service that isn’t a singular diagnostic assessment but a service that streamlines real clinicians, integrates with the legacy medical systems and is built for life-long care, replacing the existing primary care system.

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Samphire is a female-founded and run company leading the way in treating menstrual cycle-related pain, low mood and fatigue symptoms caused by dysmenorrhea (menstrual cramps) and premenstrual syndrome (PMS). Backed by neuroscience, their first product, the Nettle™ device, uses non-invasive neuromodulation to directly target regions of the brain responsible for menstrual symptoms, to alleviate pain and improve mood symptoms.

Co-founders Dr. Emilė Radytė and Alex Cook were members of the AfterWork community, and in 2021, the AfterWork team jumped at the opportunity to be first believers in their vision to end unnecessary suffering in women. Since then, they have moved mountains to not only build, test and regulate their product, but to bring it successfully to market in the UK and Europe. Samphire sold out the first drop of their pre-sales campaign within just 24 hours of launching! But more on their momentum later…

Over the years, we’ve witnessed firsthand the team’s ability to deliver and we couldn’t be happier to continue supporting them on their journey to disrupt women’s health. With a successful R&D phase complete, Samphire is ready to progress from launch into a sales and marketing mode of operation. And with a recently closed $5M USD seed round, led by Fortify Ventures and Inventure, they are well placed to do this. Here, we unpack why we’ve invested in Samphire twice.

The problem remains large and unsolved

Historically, issues pertaining to women’s health have been largely ignored by science, medicine, and industry. Even today, the vast majority of medical wearables are designed by men, and made for men. Up to 90% of women globally have clinically-recognised pain, mood, or fatigue during their periods and up to 30% have extremely severe symptoms that range from excruciating pain levels or extreme mental health issues to potential suicidality2.

Currently, there are no reasonable treatment options for women to find relief. Birth control or sterilisation will prevent dysmenorrhea and PMS by interrupting the menstrual cycle, but there are significant side effects; and of course it prevents patients from having children. When it comes to symptom management, there are no treatment options that are truly effective for dysmenorrhea and premenstrual syndrome (PMS); and none are geared specifically towards these conditions. Patients must choose from slow-acting, long-term use antidepressants or over-the-counter pain relief medications; like Ibuprofen or Naproxen. Alternatively, they can go for drugs that are meant to improve cramps and uterine contractions (like antispasmodic drugs or nitroglycerin) or try hormonal treatments like oestrogen and progesterone. However, efficacy varies; and there are increasing tailwinds of women searching for drug- and hormone-free solutions that would still be clinically tested, effective and safe.

In short, there are no effective treatment options tailored to these conditions. Yet fortunately, women’s health is finally coming into focus. The women' s health/femtech market is worth close to $1 trillion USD, and women are already spending $32.5 billion USD a year on health-related medical products3. On top of that, there’s been a recent surge in wearable tech with offers such as Flow Neuroscience and Oura rings making inroads into developing this market.

A killer product that can change lives

Nettle™ is a medical-grade neuromodulation wearable for PMS and menstrual pain. Using advanced neurotechnology, Nettle™ improves menstrual cycle health by transforming the brain’s neural networks. Users experience results in one cycle and can regain control over their life in three - and all it takes is just 20 minutes a day, 5 days a month. It’s the world’s first medical-grade, drug and hormone-free solution for managing PMS and menstrual pain and is backed by 30 years of clinical research.

Within just three years, Samphire has built, clinically validated Nettle™ and completed full regulatory clearances to enter the UK and EU markets as a Class IIa medical device, safe and effective for the clinical reduction of menstrual pain and improvement of PMS symptoms. Over the next few years they plan to enter the US via the FDA clearance process and receive reimbursement by insurance for their product across the largest healthcare markets in the world. This would dramatically impact adoption.

"We're not the first mover in neurotechnology; but we are the first ones to have heard women and their need for scientifically-driven solutions that are based in the brain. It is quite shocking how few innovative solutions there are for women's needs outside of the fertility space, even though menstrual, mental health and hormonal needs impact women (and all individuals assigned female at birth) throughout their lives."

Emilė Radytė, PhD, Samphire’s co-founder and CEO

The team are moving fast - and showing no signs of slowing down

Since we have joined the Samphire journey, they have built a product (after no less than 70 iterations), been awarded a UK Research and Innovation grant, secured a mass manufacturing partner, built a strong and engaged community of users, navigated regulatory hurdles, built a scientific board, as well as a business board of advisors, derisked the clinical pathway with powerful evidence and hired new team members, with timely superpowers. Most recently, Samphire was accepted into the NHS Innovation Accelerator, a program designed to bring the best healthcare innovations into the UK’s National Health Service at top speed (18-24 months instead of the standard 10 years).

On the product side, usability trials were a success achieving 92%+ SUS scores (a score used to assess whether a medical device can be used in the home by a layperson, 68% being the threshold); and efficacy results proving that Nettle™ outperforms standard treatments, with 72% of users seeing pain relief within a single month, and 67% of people seeing clinical improvements in their PMS symptoms after just 5 sessions.

As they move from an R&D to a marketing mode, the team are launching a symptom tracking app, that helps add scientific rigour to the tracking process and introduce the concept of neuroscience to a captive audience keen to learn more about their health, and manage it with Nettle™’s support.

They have united a community that cares and have overcome an initial question we had around receptivity

Samphire has built an impressive organic following and achieved significant brand awareness. Their ease in selling out their first drop can be attributed to their 15,000 strong waitlist. This is a great early evidence point for the market’s receptiveness to the Nettle™ headband. Based on the initial success, the team is launching further drops of units (total of 800 additional units) later this year.

From the get go, the team put significant effort into growing their social media reach (22k+ organic followers) and have seen recent successes with viral growth and posts. They have made it a priority to spend time with sufferers, building an intimate relationship to ensure they become early adopters. This passionate cohort of advocates have grown with the brand and feel an emotional connection to Samphire’s vision. And this translates to product experience too. In fact, all current usability testers have referred the device to at least one person.

Samphire has built an impressive organic following and achieved significant brand awareness. Their ease in selling out their first drop can be attributed to their 15,000 strong waitlist. This is a great early evidence point for the market’s receptiveness to the Nettle™ headband. Based on the initial success, the team is launching further drops of units (total of 800 additional units) later this year.

From the get go, the team put significant effort into growing their social media reach (22k+ organic followers) and have seen recent successes with viral growth and posts. They have made it a priority to spend time with sufferers, building an intimate relationship to ensure they become early adopters. This passionate cohort of advocates have grown with the brand and feel an emotional connection to Samphire’s vision. And this translates to product experience too. In fact, all current usability testers have referred the device to at least one person. Impressively, the word ‘life-changing’ are a common feature of their product reviews.

Questions we had for the team

1. How does Samphire evolve beyond its first product, Nettle™?

Since inception, Samphire has had aspirations to solve women’s health issues, beyond menstruation. As they move into this next phase of development, their priority is to validate the huge menstrual pain, mood and symptoms market, via the Nettle™ product. Once they have found product market fit, they will have gained the right to help women address more of their health concerns; most of which have been ignored by mainstream pharmaceuticals and healthcare. The Samphire app, which is live now, has a symptom tracking feature that allows them to amass the data needed to predict other conditions, such as postpartum depression and perimenopausal vasomotor symptoms (like hot flushes and anxiety). Then with their academic credentials, they are well placed to develop science-backed solutions for these conditions. The combination of data and targeted neurotechnology will help Samphire expand into a suite of products that are focused on alleviating women’s health issues.

2. How do you approach scaling a deeptech business?

At a high level, the speed and number of iterations that you get with a deeptech (or a research and IP-based product) are far more infrequent compared to a SaaS product. This means that both the time and costs of hypotheses, and being wrong, is much higher. On the plus side, the rewards of the initial high risk are sweet; including better overall product defensibility, less competition and the subsequent ability to enjoy higher market penetration.

When thinking about scaling a deeptech business, the Samphire team focused on operationalising 3 key motions.

1. First, harnessing a strong understanding of their target and their needs. It’s a priority for a business like Samphire to have an intimate understanding of the market - as a superficial understanding of your target will lead to wrong hypotheses and pivoting down the line is harder with a deep tech product. From the get go, the team has included their target every step of the way; from naming, to product design to symptom tracking and research.

2. The next fundamental to get in place is an effective, efficient path from academia to industry. For Samphire, this looked like leveraging their strong relationships with academia and using them to create robust clinical trials, quickly and cheaply.

3. Finally, the team found a way to operationalise their deep knowledge of the regulatory space. Through expert knowledge in medical technology with proprietary IP, the team have been able to move through the UK/EU certification process 3x faster through certifications than comparable businesses.

How we built conviction

Over the last three years, the team have consistently proved that they are strategic, skilful thinkers capable of navigating a terse regulatory environment and stringent scientific standards, while building a tight-knit community, who care deeply about their vision to end the unnecessary suffering of women. These assets, alongside their thoughtful approach to scaling a deeptech business, gives the Samphire team scope, capability and permission to continue innovating in this much-overlooked problem space. We are thrilled to continue supporting Samphire on their journey to transform the experience of pain for women, in menstrual cycles and beyond.

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Our first conversation is with Paul Harapin, CRO of Stripe, Asia Pacific.

1. Tell us about yourself and how you ended up on the path to becoming a Chief Revenue Officer (CRO)?

I started my career at IBM, where the company had a very structured program that effectively gave employees an MBA within a year. A huge part of what we learnt was selling and how to sell value. At the time, we were selling mainframes and the technology pathway underpinning it. At the beginning, I really wanted a deeper understanding of the technology so I could really establish its value, so I went down the engineer path. During my 5 years in technology, I found myself selling more than the sales teams - in large part because I am a storyteller, but also because I deeply understood the problems that customers were trying to solve. As an engineer, I was speaking to customers regularly and naturally having conversations about what they were doing and what they needed. I used that understanding to tell stories about how we were going to solve their problems - this had nothing to do with the technology at all, that’s just an enabling function. It was all about understanding. After doing that consistently, leadership suggested I move into sales full time.

Over the years, I tell my teams repeatedly that clients don't really care about your product. What they care about is the problem they’re trying to solve or the value they’re trying to capture - and the more you understand that, the better. I naturally fell into a sales groove as I just loved solving problems for customers.

2. What does your role as CRO of Stripe, Asia Pacific, entail?

I would describe what we would do as being able to tie the customer’s business to the technology we have in a way that exchanges value on both sides. That’s really what we do. If we have a client, we start by understanding what they are trying to achieve, what creates value and what are the blockages. Then, we tie that all together so that fair exchange of value is there. For it to be win-win, we must be able to help solve a customer’s problems and they must be happy to pay for it.

It’s an important part of the CRO’s job to make sure everyone feels good about the exchange of value. It can’t be lopsided to build a true partnership. The last thing I ever want is for someone to regard us as a vendor, running a transactional relationship. As CRO, it’s your job to be customer-first and infuse that sentiment through the company.

In my current role, my involvement with product teams is focused on understanding what our global customers need in the APAC region, and ensuring those needs are met.

Managing all of this—along with customer success teams, technical account managers, and marketing teams—requires navigating significant complexity. As a result, the role requires a lot of time spent on planning, forecasting, and resource allocation. This becomes particularly complex in international organisations, where you're reporting to both local and global teams.

When I first joined Stripe four and a half years ago, we had a very straightforward structure: one team sold to fast-growing startups, while another sold to everyone else. Since then, the structure has evolved. We now have specialized teams focusing on startups, SMBs, large enterprises, and platforms. The enterprise market, for instance, has a very different set of requirements than startups. These customers, such as large Australian or Asian enterprises or government bodies, require a different approach. Similarly, platforms have their own unique business model and challenges. We also have a partner channel that involves collaboration with companies like Accenture, Deloitte, and smaller firms that work with our customers on a range of services.

3. How do you manage the complexity, especially when considering resource allocation and balancing short-term and long-term goals?

It definitely ebbs and flows throughout the year. Toward the end of the year, a lot of focus is on planning for the next year and beyond. At Stripe, we do both one-year and three-year planning cycles, constantly adjusting for changes. Three years may seem like a long time, but in our fast-paced industry, it's a necessary timeframe to ensure we're on the right track.

Balancing short-term revenue goals with longer-term objectives is a continuous challenge. My primary role is to remove obstacles for my leadership team, ensuring they have a clear path to execute business needs. Much of my work involves solving problems so that the teams can focus on growing the business and helping customers. We also work closely with product teams, as our revenue goals must align with new product developments. Together, we ensure that our product roadmap supports business goals in different regions.

Managing Stripe’s business is also much more complex than traditional software businesses because our revenue doesn't always reflect immediately after closing a deal. A customer may sign a contract, but they need to integrate our product into their systems, which can take time. We constantly assess these delays, looking for ways to accelerate the process, whether by identifying resource constraints, working with partners, or resolving friction points.

4. How do you think about the trade-off between chasing short-term returns versus investing in long-term opportunities?

We take a portfolio view of our customers and change strategy based on the company's phase. Early on, Stripe was a product-led, self-serve business model. The founders themselves were hands-on, engaging with customers directly. Over time, we saw that some of the smaller companies we started working with grew into large enterprises, which required a different engagement model. Today, we manage our startup and SMB communities knowing that although the immediate revenue may be smaller, many of these companies will eventually grow into significant customers.

On the other hand, larger enterprises require a longer sales cycle but can deliver substantial returns in the long run. For example, a startup might sign a deal and go live within a week, but a large enterprise might take years to go live. However, once they're up and running, they could be processing billions in transactions. This means making strategic investments and being patient is crucial, especially with larger customers.

In the early days, Stripe wouldn’t have had the resources to pursue large enterprises, but as we've grown, we've been able to make those investments, and they are now a significant part of our business.

5. Given the evolution of the revenue role, how do you see it changing in the future?

The revenue role has always been important, but it's increasingly becoming a more general management role. In my current position, my team and I are responsible for driving revenue, but we also work closely with governments, policymakers, and even the media. A lot of innovation, particularly in payments, is coming from the APAC region, and we actively collaborate with regulators to guide policy in the industry.

More than just driving revenue, my role involves shaping the direction of the business. It’s about identifying friction points in our processes and resolving them quickly. At Stripe, we analyse data constantly to identify bottlenecks, whether it's a delay in product integration or a lack of resources. By focusing on these friction points, we can speed up the customer journey and improve overall efficiency.

As for the sales function, while many companies, such as Atlassian and Canva, initially grow through product-led marketing, they eventually need dedicated sales teams to handle enterprise-level deals. Even early-stage companies with a product-led growth model will eventually need a skilled salesforce to manage larger deals and navigate the complexities of enterprise sales.

6. Reflecting on your career and the future of the revenue role, what advice do you have for founders, especially technical founders, as they grow their businesses?

As a founder, particularly a technical one, it's crucial to understand that the sales process will evolve. In the early stages, you may be doing everything yourself, from calling customers to leveraging your network. But over time, as your company grows, you’ll need to adapt your approach. The importance of having a dedicated sales team and understanding how to manage large enterprise contracts is something founders need to be prepared for. The evolution from a small, self-serve business to a more complex organisation with sales teams and enterprise deals is natural, but it’s also something that requires foresight and planning.

Being exposed to this evolution early on is valuable for founders. It’s about understanding what’s coming down the line and preparing for it. Many or most of the companies I work with appreciate this foresight because it helps them avoid surprises and better manage their growth. It’s a journey, and with the right strategies, it can be a smooth one.

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In 2021, we had the pleasure of meeting Mickael Roger, and Pablo Gil Brusola to hear about PropHero - a tech-forward platform that makes buying investment properties simple, painless and profitable. We jumped at the chance to invest in their pre-seed round and have since joined them on the path to Series A.

In just over 3 years, the team has created a product that inspires true customer love, drummed up momentum with tenacity and resourcefulness, expanded globally and proved the stickiness of a marketplace hypothesis (by demonstrating the value of connecting customers to anyone needed to successfully complete a property purchase — think surveyors, mortgage brokers, agents and more).

PropHero represents everything that AfterWork strives for: backing ambitious founders early on in their journey, and supporting them as they de-risk their unique hypothesis and build momentum, fast. We’re proud to continue our multi-year relationship with the team - and to have been given the opportunity to partner many times over through both the AfterWork fund (PropHero now represents one of the largest positions in our portfolio) as well as with many of our LPs who have joined the journey via direct investment.

These investment notes interweave interview responses from Mickael Roger, one of the PropHero founders.

The PropHero Product

Buying property is time consuming, stressful and devoid of data. Often buyers just go with suburbs they know, and let their emotions drive decision making. Prophero starts by understanding their customers and their goals; factoring things like rental yields, timelines and deposit available - culminating in a data-driven approach to identifying properties that fit with an investors profile. With the right property identified, PropHero then gets to work making the process seamless by plugging their customers into an ecosystem of partners needed to seal the deal - from surveyors, to mortgage brokers, renovation and furnishing options and insurance providers. The upshot? PropHero customers can build a high return, global property portfolio through a simple, transparent and time efficient process.

Immense Customer Love

Since launch, PropHero has helped 8,000 customers across 40 countries build wealth through property. The team have found a foothold with those building a diversified property portfolio and ‘rentvestors’ alike - both eager to embrace digital solutions that simplify decision making while keeping them in control.

Most importantly, the proof is in the pudding with customers returning to PropHero’s trusted service time and again. In fact, 2 years after the first investment, 48% of users are buying a second property, sometimes more. Beyond delivering a simple experience, this is no doubt due to PropHero’s ability to deliver strong returns for their customers. PropHero’s property prediction model has consistently outperformed market averages year after year. Since 2021, the 1,800 properties sold through the platform have outperformed the market and generated $65,000 in average capital gains.

Tell us about the early days of interacting with customers… how did you ensure you were building a product they would love?

Learning from past mistakes, we tested product market fit with over 100 potential users before building anything. Our question to them was simple: “If there was an app that allowed you to invest in real-estate removing most of the pain points, and where you would outperform the market since it’s using AI to select the best deals, would you pay for it, and how much would you pay?”

Around 80% of respondents told us “This is exactly what I need, tell me when you go live”.

This made us confident we could launch PropHero.

Following this decision, we built a 1-month MVP, then went to market with our first users.

The experience with the first users was extremely manual, talking to them a lot to get constant feedback on the Product features and asking them which features they would like us to build next.

I can say, smiling today, that I’ve been ashamed of our Product for nearly a year (with the exception of the Data model which was working from the beginning). This MVP mindset allowed us to 1) Get constant user feedback and 2) Get revenue to pay the bills.

Committed Team, Masters at Execution

Over the years, we have been consistently impressed by the team’s ability to deliver. PropHero has a demonstrated history of setting and achieving ambitious growth targets, as well as systematically derisking the business. For example, the team set an aggressive goal to reach profitability in 2024 and achieved it with an entire quarter to spare. Since launching in July 2021, PropHero has built a multi-offering marketplace delivering annualised revenues exceeding US$24M.

How do you ensure your goals have the right amount of stretch and how do you celebrate wins as a team?

We follow an Agile methodology to set quarterly objectives and key results (OKRs) with each team. Targets are defined based on bottom up analysis of our funnel. Each quarter, we ensure that these targets are “ambitious yet realistic” and we make sure leaders only commit to targets they believe in.

A key mindset we constantly push with the team is the “Florentino mentality”, which is an homage to Florentino Perez, a very successful Spanish entrepreneur and the owner of Real Madrid. The “Florentino mentality” consists of having the absolute belief that whatever limit you see is only in your head, and that the absolute certainty that we will succeed makes the impossible happen.

Each time we face challenges (and we face many!), we remind the team of it, and we’ve seen it work incredibly well.

Global Expansion

The team launched in Australia and within a year of launch expanded to Spain. They have since opened operations in Ireland and Indonesia and have their eyes set on further global expansion. With every market, PropHero cements their position as a global wealth partner to their customers - allowing them to invest across borders with ease and benefit from market dynamics absent in their home markets.

What dynamics do you look at before determining a market’s suitability for the PropHero proposition?

We believe PropHero will one day be present in all countries, so the real question is “Which ones should we prioritise?”.

There is both science and art in defining which country to open next. Science consists of analysing macro-economics, competition, investment returns, ease of doing business and synergies with existing markets and customer base. Art consists of travelling to the target country, and then finding the ideal, initial, trustworthy partners.

We’ve observed that hiring the right country manager and selecting the right partners to launch a country are the 2 key success factors when opening a country.

Taking big bets with a hypothesis-led mindset

The team have their eyes set squarely on the future - unafraid to make big bets in order to fuel new waves of growth. Yet doing so with a customer-centric mindset and through an incremental ‘test and learn’ approach has ensured risk is appropriately mitigated and the business continues to grow from the core.

Case-in-point, the past 3 years has seen PropHero evolve beyond simply property investment transactions into a wider marketplace of vetted partners across conveyancing, mortgage broking, renovations, property management, and insurance. Today, approximately 90% of users cross-sell at least one marketplace vertical, with many customers choosing to bundle multiple offerings into a single, easy subscription.

More recently, we’ve seen the team launch some promising experiments with AI that acts as a wealth advisory concierge by identifying a user’s next best action. This feature has already seen positive reception from an existing pilot, and we have faith in the team’s ability to amplify greenshoots.

How do you create a culture of appropriate risk taking and what is the approach you take to experimentation?

All these initiatives have been launched as they contribute to our vision to become the world’s first AI-driven Real Estate Wealth Management Platform.

There are many elements that come into play to create this culture of entrepreneurship:

1. Hiring, developing, exciting and retaining amazing talent. We have an entire team dedicated to this.

2. Constantly reminding everyone on our entrepreneurial culture (“Entrepreneurship” is one of our core values)

3. “Test fast, fail, learn, grow” mindset: Team members are encouraged to test things, with a “start small and fast” mindset. We make mistakes, sometimes it costs some money, but this is the price to pay to discover new opportunities.

Finally, and this may sound counter-intuitive, our role as founders involves more often asking people to slow down and focus, instead of testing too many things. It is actually easy to “do many things”, but much harder to define what will truly move the needle, and do it well. This is where the OKR process is critical. Each Key Result is reviewed and validated by the founders to ensure that it is aligned with the vision and focuses the organisation on the most important opportunities.

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AfterWork Ventures Pty Ltd ACN 650 085 251 (AfterWork Ventures) is a corporate authorised representative (CAR)(CAR Number 1288519) of Boutique Capital Pty Ltd ACN 621 697 621 (Boutique Capital) AFSL 508011.

Any information or advice is general advice only and has been prepared by AfterWork Ventures for individuals identified as wholesale investors for the purposes of providing a financial product or financial service, under Section 761G or Section 761GA of the Corporations Act 2001 (Cth). Any information or advice given does not take into account your particular objectives, financial situation or needs and before acting on the advice, you should consider the appropriateness of the advice, having regard to your objectives, financial situation and needs. If any advice relates to the acquisition, or possible acquisition, of a particular financial product you should read any relevant Product Disclosure Statement or like instrument and consult your own professional advisers about legal, tax, financial or other matters relevant to the suitability of this information.

Any investment(s) summarised are subject to known and unknown risks, some of which are beyond the control of AfterWork Ventures and their directors, employees, advisers or agents. AfterWork Ventures does not guarantee any particular rate of return or the performance, nor does Afterwork Ventures and its directors personally guarantee the repayment of capital or any particular tax treatment. Past performance is not indicative of future performance.

All investments carry some level of risk, and there is typically a direct relationship between risk and return. We describe what steps we take to mitigate risk (where possible) in the investment documentation, which must be read prior to investing. It is important to note that risk cannot be mitigated completely.

Enrola is an online education comparison platform eliminating decision paralysis for prospective students. AfterWork are delighted to lead their pre-seed round and join them on the journey to help budding students find the right high-quality course, with outcomes that match their personal goals, on a timeline that works for them.

Founders Jo and Yvette met on the YC founder matching platform, while Jo was still the CEO at the Australian Institute of Business. Jo was planning to take the concept of Enrola through the Antler program and discussed this with Yvette. She endorsed the idea enthusiastically, having completed the Antler program a few years prior in Amsterdam. 4 weeks later, Jo convinced Yvette to join her for a week in Sydney as part of the program. From that week on, the partnership was cemented and Enrola was born. To learn more about our investment thesis and Enrola’s journey, you can read our detailed notes here.

1. How did you get the idea for your business?

Jo: I like to joke that Enrola is just me “smushing” together the two halves of my career - firstly in comparison and then in tertiary education and in a lot of ways that’s true. I saw firsthand how students were getting lost in the weeds trying to figure out the right course, while education providers were burning money on marketing that didn’t really hit the mark. It just clicked one day that there had to be a better way— and that a comparison platform was actually the answer.

2. Talk us through your journey…How did it go from an idea to a living, breathing thing?

Jo: Once I’d latched on to the idea that there was a better way to get students into life changing education, it became a bit of a stone in my shoe. I did a new venture program through Flinders, then applied for Antler - really just to see if I was obsessing over something insane. I started to look for a co-founder… quit my job..found a co-founder.. Spoke to hundreds of students and providers and suddenly it was an actual thing, with customers and a website and a brand and a team.

Yvette: I was looking for someone with an interesting problem to solve, and I wanted to team up with someone who could use my tech skills. When I met Jo, her idea made a lot of sense, and we got along well. I’d had a good experience with Antler before, so everything seemed to line up. We started working together, testing things out, and moving quickly from there.

3. What was the biggest barrier to getting your business off the ground? How did you overcome it?

Jo: The biggest barrier was convincing people that this massive, fragmented market could be disrupted—that vocational education didn’t have to be this chaotic, confusing landscape. But we pushed through by showing results. We went live early, got market validation quickly, and demonstrated that our model works. We’re both pretty stubborn and pragmatic!

4. What inspired you to make Enrola work?

Jo: For me, it was from talking to prospective students - hearing their stories, feeling their frustration and being really humbled by how grateful they were to have someone “in their corner” to find the right course. Perhaps weirdly - it was the same when onboarding providers, they were SO supportive, even when we weren’t getting things quite right, that I felt (and still feel) this obligation to get it right.

Beyond that, Yvette and I talk about this phase, a few months in, when it went from feeling like a project, to a real live business that we were 100% committed to making work.

Yvette: Hearing directly from students and getting their feedback really confirmed that there was a genuine problem we could solve. It made us realise that we were on the right track. Talking to dedicated education providers also reinforced how important it was to help students find the right fit. Those conversations made it clear that we had something valuable to offer.

5. Outside of your company, what are you into right now?

Jo: I’m fascinated by the US election, in the process of moving to Queensland and have a horse…

Yvette: I moved to Australia from Europe a couple of years ago, and I’m really enjoying the lifestyle change—the weather is great, and I love being able to swim in the sea every day. I’ve also gotten into Ultimate Frisbee. There’s a local community game in the park near my place, and it’s a fun way to stay active and meet people.

6. Who or what inspires you and keeps you focused on your north star?

Jo: Seeing the difference we’re making for students is a huge motivator. Knowing that we’re helping people find their path and make confident decisions about their future is incredibly rewarding. And, of course, we’re now building a team - and so that keeps us laser focused on making this a success.

7. Talk us through a standard day in your life as a founder…

Jo: I’d love to say that I get up early, meditate, exercise and then plan my day but… the reality right now is that I get up early, pick up horse poo, sit down to do “2 quick things” before having a shower, get lost in the 157 things that a startup founder needs to get done, check in with the team, apologise for my appearance then finally shower at 6pm! Being a founder means wearing a lot of hats - and so I might reach out to prospective providers, talk to students, do the payroll, setup a new marketing campaign, write a blog post, hire a new team member - it’s really varied, which makes it really interesting!

Yvette: I try to get out of the house first thing in the morning and go for a walk, maybe a swim and get some coffee. Then it’s down to work: starting with a quick team catch-up and checking out what our users have been up to on the platform. I usually get a good chunk of the day to focus on designing, building and testing our product.

8. What unusual or childhood experiences prepared you for what you do today?

Jo: When I was 17, I went to live in Argentina for a year. I knew about 20 words of Spanish, and Google Translate was definitely not a thing back then. I’d spent my whole life in the same house, going to the same school, so it was a massive culture shock. I had to figure things out on my own, adapt to a completely different culture, and make it through my final year of high school in a language I barely spoke (though I like to talk, so I learned fast!). I think that year taught me a lot about resilience and independence - which is useful today!

Yvette: My mum taught me how to write HTML when I was 12 or 13. I guess that might have sparked some kind of entrepreneurial tech spirit in me, even if I didn’t realise it at the time!

9. What is your golden rule that you try to live and work by?

Jo: Don’t be a d*ck. And it’s hard to be anyone other than yourself - so be the best version of yourself (unless you’re a dick, then be someone else).

Yvette: My golden rule is probably to just keep things in perspective and not take myself too seriously. Life’s too short for that. And always be curious—there’s always something new to learn or figure out.

10. What advice would you have for anyone looking to take the plunge?

Jo: If you have the runway to give it a jolly good crack, then go for it. For me, it had been a “one day” thing for so long that eventually I had to say “it’s now… or probably never” and never was NOT an option. Oh, and find a co-founder. It makes it so much better.

Yvette: You need a bit of luck for all the stars to align: the right co-founder, the right problem and the right solution all coming together at the right time. You might need to try a few times before you land on the right combo. When you do, that’s the time to go for it!

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AfterWork are excited to be two time backers of Primary; participating in their pre-seed round in November 2022 and doubling down as part of their latest Seed round led by Carthona Capital, with participation from Archangel Ventures, Macdoch Ventures, No Brand, and Resolution Ventures. We see the opportunity and believe in the vision to offer treasury services to companies of all shapes and sizes, no matter how early on in their journey.

What we loved about the opportunity

It’s rare to find a solution that unlocks such immense financial value; and creates a wedge to become a financial command centre

By creating high value products that startups and scaleups need, Primary form strong relationships at a critical moment in time. From this, they are well placed to offer a full financial operations ecosystem with a higher frequency of use. This then deeper embeds them within Finance functions across a wider spectrum of customers, and increases the upside for their business. For example, Primary are on track to offer more services like automated cash sweeping, debt management and payment initiation and orchestration.

Since launch, Primary’s treasury management solution is already loved by their 40 customers. And with good reason; their product allows startups and scaleups to develop a cash management strategy from the get go, in a way that suits their individual needs. Primary gives access to high yield products that have previously been out of reach; either from customers thinking they couldn't access them, not being able to access them or from requiring a process that was too complex and time intensive to navigate on their own.

Most startup and scaleup finance teams do not have treasury expertise, or the bandwidth to put together a strategy for their cash. But it matters. A typical Primary customer, who has raised $10m to fund the business for 36 months, loses $750K by holding funds in a transaction account. This equates to about 3 months of runway; a significant amount in a capital constrained climate.

Tactically, clients use Primary in three key ways.

1. Operating account - where they perform day to day transactions. This can be connected to Primary, but does not require a customer to move away from their main bank.

2. Reserve cash - a high interest savings account within Primary held with a Tier 1 bank in the customer’s name, used for storing funds required in the next 3-6 months.

3. Strategic cash - a combination of accounts within Primary held with Tier 1 institutions comprising fixed income funds, cash funds and term deposits for funds that are not required for 6 months+.

A product obsessed team bringing financial services expertise 

We had the pleasure of getting to know founder Ben Buckingham as part of the AfterWork community. Ben is an astute thinker, passionate team player and always willing to contribute his perspective. He brings deep expertise in the fintech sector, via his experience at McKinsey and as an early hire and CPO at Identitiii, where he led the product build of their end-to-end automated anti-money laundering and counter-terrorism financing tool. Ben has bonafide expertise building enterprise grade fintech and lived experience from working hand in glove with some of the world’s largest financial services companies. 

Ben’s strategic oversight is matched by the engineering precision of CPO Will Freeborn. Will was formerly Head of Payments & Head of Business Performance at Employment Hero, where he joined through acquisition of his expense management startup, Spense. 

The early team also includes Chief of Staff Finn Blake, an unstoppable product builder who joined after working as an entrepreneur and investor for global venture firm Rocket Internet.

A torrent of customer love

By virtue of their target customer, we are well acquainted with the pain point they are solving. In fact, we know some of their earliest customers intimately, as they are companies in the AfterWork portfolio. Since inception, rave reviews have been consistent and complimentary; and the reason they have been able to increase their funds under administration from $0 to over $200m in just 1.5 years.

Everlab, an AfterWork company, had tried to access yield products on their own when they raised funds. The big banks treated them as a small fish, not worthy of their time, so the team had given up on the idea of maximising their money by the time Primary came along. Upon learning about the product, the Everlab team were more than happy to pay Primary a fee to take the account set up burden away from them. From their vantage, it was free money. What’s not to like! This is a common scenario playing out in the startup and scaleup space. In addition to Everlab, other companies in AfterWork’s portfolio are embracing Primary to help them manage their treasury, including Lyka and OwnHome.

“We wanted plenty of buffer & safety in our investments with Primary but wanted to make sure our cash was being optimised as much as possible. The high liquidity options like money market funds meant we could have quick access without needing to sacrifice yield. Primary makes this incredibly easy to set up and manage.”

Marqo VP Finance, Ilonna Babakhanova

The Challenges we saw

Expanding from a tight-knit network of customers in Australia

To date, early traction has rightfully been amongst VC backed startups and scaleups in Australia. This was part of the strategy and a logical first cohort of customers given Primary’s origins and the ‘raise and spend’ nature of VC backed businesses. Primary’s launch has also been timely; in a tighter funding market, startups have an increased focus on extending runway. Accordingly, treasury management through Primary has proven the easiest lever to pull.

Primary’s next challenge will be expanding into new territories outside of their native Australia. This is a non-trivial challenge at the best of times, but doubly so given the regulated nature of Primary’s business, as well as the need to build relationships with relevant financial services operators in each geography.

In addition, Primary are looking to expand upstream into new mid-market segments. Whilst treasury management is universal, the product-obsessed team are focused on ensuring Primary can meet the right jobs-to-be-done for these segments.

Capturing more of the pie

Like many enterprise fintech businesses, a natural end point for Primary looks like capturing multiple revenue streams by creating value for customers throughout the value chain. As we’ve touched on, Primary have a robust product roadmap and line of sight to these new features tying directly to revenue for the business. 

Additionally, Primary’s role as an intermediary between its customers and financial services providers means there are credible network effects for the taking. As Primary becomes an increasingly large channel for the likes of money market funds, there is an opportunity to monetise both sides of the market. In this scenario, Primary moves beyond treasury services and into adjacencies like cards and expenses, insights and analysis and global bank accounts, via connection to third parties.

“Business banks have become complacent, and take advantage of smaller businesses who have few options. Primary is here to change that, by making it seamless for smaller wholesale companies to access a range of institutional-grade yield products”.

Ben Buckingham, Founder

Questions we had for the team

In an industry that requires trust, how are you going to build trust quickly?

We have been impressed by the team’s ability to take an ajar door and turn it into a meaningful relationship. Ben’s expertise in the space, both as a founder and via McKinsey, has allowed Primary to turn warm leads into early customers by inviting them to work hand-in-glove as first product users. 

Primary have also gained traction by adopting marketing techniques imbued with both surprise and generosity. In a now signature move, the team send CEO’s and CFO’s customised bottle of Four Pillars gin once they learn a funding round has been closed. The bottle comes with a scratch card and a QR code to skip their waitlist - and it works. 75% of recipients booked a first meeting; and 50% of sales come from this unique channel. At its core, the gin initiative makes it clear that behind Primary are real people, that really care about what they do. This act of generosity starts the relationship off on a note of trust - a critical ingredient to succeed in the category.

How we built conviction

Ultimately, we believe in the opportunity Primary is seizing. In a capital constrained climate, they are stepping into the market to offer startups and scaleups solutions they want; at a time when they are deemed insignificant by other banks. Primary’s innovative treasury management solution is an easy get for their customers. With a strong base that has rapidly grown to manage over $200 million in funds, Primary has proven their value proposition resonates. After all, who doesn’t want to maximise idle cash through accessible high-yield products and turn otherwise lost revenue into tangible gains? 

The expertise of the founding team, combined with their commitment to build meaningful relationships, design a user-friendly platform and experiment with creative marketing techniques gives us confidence they are the right team to achieve their vision; and have the permission to expand their services offered as they grow. At AfterWork, we aim to be the first believers in generational startups; and we are thrilled to support Primary as they set out to play a similar role for startups, as their financial partner.

When two AfterWork community members introduced us to the Matilda Migration concept, we quickly shared their enthusiasm and recognised the opportunity to disrupt the underserved migration agency market in a meaningful, tech forward way. AfterWork is delighted to join Matilda on the journey as it sets out to digitise and transform the migration experience. We have led their pre-seed round, alongsideWollemi Capital, Everywhere VC, Co-Ventures and Startmate. Since launching a month ago, Matilda have helped secure 7 visas, with an additional 18 initial consults lined up, and garnered interest from 5 businesses needing multiple visas, on an ongoing basis. 

What we loved about the opportunity

Australia’s migration agency market is large, underserved, and ripe for disruption 

A large market size has to be the starting point for any VC backed business. Yet Australia offers few domestic opportunities that meet the necessary scale for investors. There are a few known exceptions, (like mortgages and pet food) and we believe Matilda will prove migration to be another. Australia is a strong migration destination and punches well above its weight for the number of visas processed. Each year, Australia grants almost 3m applications, which is 5x more visas than America on a per capita basis1. 

The market is large, but also poorly served. Applying for a visa is a highly stressful and gruelling process. The lives of applicants, and their families, get put on hold trying to navigate complexities, ambiguities and paperwork. There are hundreds of visa types, conflicting information on blogs and impenetrable government websites to sift through. Migration agencies are supposed to be there to help, but their services leave much to be desired. NPS is notoriously low and 33% of Australia’s approximately 5k migration agents have complaints filed against them2. 

In our recent AI-powered service exploratory, we discussed the characteristics that make for the best kind of market dynamics and create the right opportunity for a new tech-forward entrant to enter and make a meaningful dent. Market fragmentation, localised distribution and lack of high quality service create ideal conditions for consolidation for a player like Matilda. 

“Immigration is one of those classic, ugly, regulated markets where all the suppliers are mostly making a great living for themselves, and thus there has been very little incentive to innovate. As a result, the industry has been very stagnant over the decades and it remains quite archaic. Generally speaking, compared to what consumers have to expect in the modern age, the service levels are very poor, so there is a big opportunity to level-up the experience"

Co-founder, Damian Png

Gen AI is heralding a new era of AI-powered software businesses

Timing wise, there is a clear ‘why now’ for Matilda. The advent of AI has paved the way for new types of business. Rather than SaaS, that gave us the tools to do the work ourselves; we’re seeing a rise in businesses that are selling entire outcomes. This is made possible thanks to the rapid developments in AI.

Amongst other factors, we recently discussed the potential for AI to fundamentally reshape the unit economics for services businesses. We hypothesised the basic playbook for this might look like:

1. Control the flow of information, in order to

2. Efficiently automate workflows through structured data and repeatable processes, leading to

3. A lower cost to serve and more scalable backends, and

4. A superior experience and the right to command a higher price point.

Mapping this onto the Matilda experience, we feel they’re set up to succeed. Visa processing is a fundamentally administrative task, with the role of migration agents traditionally focused on helping identify and gather relevant and often disparate data from clients (such as personal information, employment history, or relationship memories), before hand-holding them through the convoluted visa application process.

Whilst some of the process (namely repetitive, manual workflows) have long been ripe picking for digitisation; advances in Gen AI have unlocked higher levels of automation in situations that may have been ambiguous (like helping employees articulate the unique skill sets they bring to Australia) or in acting as co-pilots where a more human approach is required.

Delivered together, these features help what looks like a services business on the outside, look more like a technology led business. This is not a distant reality; we’ve already seen the US digital visa processor Boundless, who focus on improving the visa application process for families, embed technological developments into their process. They have delivered a superior experience, powered by AI, and to great market reception.

AfterWork Community members, with a proven track record

Co-founders Damian Png and Niamh Mooney are a powerhouse duo with experience perfectly matched for Matilda. 

We have had the privilege of watching Damian grow in his career as an AfterWork community member of more than 5 years. During this time, he has gained leadership experience across product, commercial, and strategy functions in portfolio companies and in the broader startup ecosystem and we have been eagerly awaiting the right opportunity to back him in his own endeavour. We’re especially excited that Matilda is a problem close to his own heart, coming from an immigrant family. 

Similarly, we have had a front row seat to watch Niamh develop the perfect skill-set required to grow the type of brand we believe Matilda will become. She began her career as a lawyer, a necessity when tackling a problem like migration before growing Eucalyptus’s third company, Software, into an instantly recognisable Australian brand. 

 Challenges We Saw

Will the business model (i.e. margins) look like a tech business or a service business?

To be an attractive venture investment, healthy margins need to be evident and achievable. Typically, in a service business the price point is higher at a lower margin as you are paying for a human to manually do a job in its entirety. Conversely, product businesses can sell the same piece of software over and over again; they make a higher margin, but sell at a lower price point so that a user can do the job themselves. 

But what if a service business could sell an outcome (rather than yet another software tool to add to a users’ workload) and continue to solve a customer's problem in its entirety in a more efficient manner, without sacrificing all of its margin? That’s what we believe Matilda will be able to do by putting the visa application process on rails and using AI strategically. 

Matilda is automating many of the repetitive tasks involved in a visa application allowing them to serve many clients more efficiently and effectively, resulting in an improved customer experience with margins that will start to look more like a product rather than service business. They will reserve moments of human interaction for key touch points along the customer journey, creating a better experience for migrants in such a stressful time of their lives. 

Is there a way to reach customers at scale?

With efficiency solved for via automation, the next outstanding question we had was around scale. Matilda has entered a cottage industry, where ambitions are low and the competition is fragmented, tech-avoidant and yet to harness the power of brand, customer experience and digital marketing.  

Here, we recognised the expertise Niamh brought to the table; and her hands on experience building a desirable brand and designing a memorable customer experience. At the helm of Skin Software, Niamh created a brand from scratch, built on trust and getting the outcomes right for customers. Niamh has mastered the playbook to build a reputable digital brand; understanding key levers to drive trust, establish credibility, build loyalty and foster word of mouth. While this playbook is often put to work in categories like wellness, fitness and fashion, it has not been extended to migration. And arguably the affiliation you have with a company that helps you achieve a life goal of moving to another country has the power to be much stronger than the vitamins you buy! Niamh, Damian and the AfterWork team, believe in the power of brand to create a positive, remarkable experience at one of the most stressful junctures in people’s lives - and the unlock in NPS that follows.

“We’ve identified key similarities between the migration-tech and health-tech sectors, both are professional services with experts as gatekeepers of information. Much of the process can be automated by providing the right information, at the right time, and setting up the system so that the Registered Migration Agent is operating at the top of their scope of practice.”   Niamh Mooney, founder

“When considering our acquisition strategy, each visa is a unique product because the target customer is entirely different and we’ll reach each through different channels. SEO and Search will be key channels but so too will word-of-mouth so an attractive referral program is high on our list of growth levers”

Questions we had for the team

This has been demonstrated in the US, will Australia be any different?

Boundless have served over 100,000 families across 10 visa classes, experienced 245% growth in the last three years and were named one of the fastest growing companies in America by Inc. Magazine in 20243. They have proven the business model and that there is money to be made by digitising and improving the visa application experience.

After investigating the success of Boundless Immigration in the US, we hunted for analogues between the American and Australian markets. Through interviews with immigration agents, in both countries, we discovered the technical process, procedural complexity and propensity to using a third party were similar. 

These favourable conditions pave the way for a business like Matilda to enter the market. And they aren’t always present.  For example, despite also having high visa processing volumes, Germany is a challenging market. Here, migration service providers are much less common and most applicants choose to self-serve. This is partly because the process outlined by the government is relatively straightforward, and also because of the multiple not-for-profits who assist with the application process, particularly with refugee visas. 

How we built conviction

As a team, we have had the good fortune of knowing Damo and Niamh in both professional capacities, and as AfterWork community members. Not only are they proven strategic powerhouses, they know how to get things done. Consistently, we have seen them execute, rise to challenges and collaborate effectively. They are very much known entities! We have fundamental confidence in their ability to put real money through the business and overcome execution risk. We share their vision to improve the migration experience, starting with visas and believe the market is large enough, and conditions ripe enough, for their success.

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Enrola helps budding students find the right high-quality course, with outcomes that match their personal goals, on a timeline that works for them. The market is large - with 4.5 million students in Australia enrolling in vocational education courses each year1. They’re a mix of school leavers (30%) and career changers (70%) and need help navigating the overwhelming 2,133 options out there. Enrola’s tech solution delivers the right qualification recommendations (based on goals, prior experience and outcomes) and the right provider recommendation (based on lifestyle requirements, preferred mode of study). On top of this, it also provides personalised support to give students confidence to commit to the enrolment. Enrola helps students find quality options both within this crowded space and outside this concentration, better suited to their needs2.

Not only are Enrola solving a problem for students, they’re helping the 5,000 Australian vocational providers too3. With more competitors than ever, Registered Training Organisations (RTOs) need efficient and cost-effective student recruitment methods; which Enrola provides.

AfterWork are excited to join Enrola on their journey to make further education enrolments simple. We jumped at the opportunity to lead their pre-seed round, alongside Skalata Ventures, Antler and strategic angels

What we loved about the opportunity

Building the future workforce of Australia

There’s no two ways about it, we have a shortage of VET-qualified workers in Australia. In fact, the government forecasts that in the next 10 years, 1 in 3 new jobs will require Cert II - IV as the primary pathway4. Government funding for private Vocational Education and Training is a priority, with significant funds flowing to the sector.  In fact, in 2023, there were 421k funded student placements at private RTOs5. Yet macro level incentives can only go so far; Enrola is providing much needed liquidity to the market, matching prospective students with specific courses and providers.

From the perspective of the providers, Enrola is arriving at the exact right time. Recent policy decisions have restricted international student numbers significantly, who previously comprised 11% of Cert III and IV enrolments at Private RTOs6. The proposed caps will see Private VET Providers numbers reduced by 54%7. Enrola is able to offset this for providers by helping source a greater portion of domestic students.

“You were able to pick the right course for me, I couldn't have decided myself. That has helped me a lot and I can't wait to start" Amanda, Student

Formidable team with the right experience  

CEO and founder, Jo Thomas, has extensive experience in both higher education and VC and PE backed marketplace models. In previous roles, she was the COO and CEO of the Australian Institute of Business and also held roles with well known aggregators, including as COO of ComparetheMarket and Operations Director at iSelect. Jo’s credibility in the education sector has translated into partnerships; having secured arrangements with prominent institutions in their first four months of operation.  Yvette Quinby is Enrola’s CTO and co-founder, and brings profound global experience as a software engineer. Her areas of expertise include systems integration, payments and scalability, having engineered platforms that managed billions in annual transactions and scaled them globally. Together, the team has the credibility and expertise to build a scalable, tech solution to a growing problem.

The team consistently deliver a lot on a little  

Enrola launched in January 2024, after emerging from the Antler accelerator program and has consistently demonstrated tenacity, resourcefulness and a shrewd ability to achieve outsized impact. The team has shown they know where to allocate capital in ways that drive results and build momentum. This is particularly impressive in a marketplace context; where the chicken-egg issue of scaling both supply and demand simultaneously is a famously thorny task.  On the supply side, Enrola has partnered with 12 RTO providers across Community Services, Automotive, Business, Health, Fitness and Pharmacy. On the demand side, targeted and data led marketing experiments have already resulted in the placement of over 200 students. Even at the earliest stages, the team have proven themselves as smart thinkers and a safe pair of hands, and have given us confidence that there are both long-term and short-term returns to be made.

“We’re excited about the massive opportunity in vocational education – a $16 billion market that’s been crying out for simplification. With millions of students struggling to find the right course and providers struggling to reach them, Enrola steps in to make that connection seamless. Our mission is simple: we want to get more people into life-changing education. And we’re genuinely excited because every step forward brings us closer to transforming an industry that desperately needs it." Jo Thomas, co-founder, Enrola

The Challenges we saw

Keeping plates spinning on a two-sided marketplace

Marketplaces are one of the most common business models we see founders pitching, often inspired by the truly outlier amounts of value captured by the likes of Uber and airbnb as intermediaries of massive industries in transport and accommodation. And yet despite these success stories, many investors approach the thematic with high degrees of caution given their famously tricky reputation.

A true marketplace needs natural pull on both the consumer and supplier side of the market. Aggregating suppliers is a necessary, but insufficient step on its own. You must also organically aggregate demand. With each step, it should get easier to acquire the incremental consumer, as well as the incremental supplier.

Take the likes of Compare The Market and their insurance aggregator business. Here consumers trust a third party to appropriately diligence the market on their behalf, and know (thanks to some clever meerkat themed marketing) that no additional direct costs will be borne by them for doing so. Likewise, insurers recognise aggregators like Compare the Market are an undeniable channel for new customer acquisition, and accept (perhaps not always happily) that sharing margin with these third parties is a necessary cost of doing business and protection against their competitors capturing greater market share.

Getting that flywheel spinning is hard, but we have confidence the Enrola are set up for success. On the supply side, we believe that Enrola can scale its RTO partners by a factor of 10, providing sufficient coverage of study areas, geographies and study options (e.g. online, hybrid). The team are already on track to do this, and with a strong business model underpinning them. Enrola have negotiated capturing 20 - 25% of course fees for successful enrolments (approximately $1,500 per student). 

On the demand side, we need to believe that Enrola can do a superior job of generating leads via disciplined paid marketing, alongside investment in owned channels and partnerships. So far, they have demonstrated strength in converting leads via a fantastic digital experience supported by an effective, light-touch sales process. 

Expanding the TAM

Like many marketplaces, hyper specific focus in the early days must naturally dovetail into increasing the size of prize via new customer segments. For Enrola, there are a few natural dimensions of expansion. 

First comes expanding the number of courses offered; growing from over 90 to 200 within the next 6 months and extending into additional study areas like Mental Health, Business and Education. Next, Enrola are looking to expand from their initial focus of “Job Switchers” (mid career professionals seeking relevant qualifications to access a new job pathway) to “School Leavers / Career Finders” (15-24 year olds seeking their first vocational career pathway) that comprise approximately 30% of the market. Finally, there is a path to expand beyond only government funded placements to the two-thirds of the market that are privately funded; acknowledging this represents a fundamentally different proposition to prospective students.

Questions we had for the team

How do you retain high quality of placements at scale?

Maintaining RTO quality is a real challenge and one the industry hasn’t always navigated well. In the past, government reform of VET student loans was a way to ensure funding was achieving the right educational outcomes. Most recently, the government has invested in the cleanup of RTOs, reviewing them with a fine tooth comb to eliminate low quality providers. For example, any RTO that did not have students in the last 12 months closed on June 30th this year. This helped drive consolidation of enrolments to higher quality RTOs and shutter those flailing. 

Enrola are also doing their bit to rein in the wild west of RTO providers through a relentless focus on quality. When an RTO is of a high standard, not only do more students complete their certifications, but they enter the workforce as valuable contributors. Enrola determines the calibre of RTOs by combining government audit and quality data, their own proprietary metrics, mystery shopping and ongoing reviews from students. The curation process is ongoing, happening both before they sign the RTO on as partners, as well as after student enrolment. This mechanism keeps quality high; providers that don’t meet Enrola’s standards are swiftly off-boarded (an occurrence that has already happened).

How we built conviction

Ultimately, we believe that the need for students to find the right high-quality course is both large and growing.  On top of this, Enrola’s model, which incentivises course completion, not just placements, complements government policy and positions them favourably to become a meaningful player in a growing space. This is a point of difference, as previous commission models only incentivised leads generated; leaving the burden of both enrolment and completion to the RTO.  When it comes to the team, Jo and Yvette’s expertise in marketplaces and scalable tech is both deep and precise. As founders, they have shown they can do more with less and can focus on driving outcomes that matter. We are delighted to be part of their journey to help prospective students find further education options that fit just right and enrol with confidence.

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Traditional SaaS was premised on the idea of selling productivity - amplifying the performance of individual users through software that was largely self-serve. Alternatively, services businesses sell entire, end-to-end outcomes (and the relief of a job done well). The business model underlying SaaS is normally a fixed price per seat; whereas AI-powered services businesses are likely to retain the business model of their non-tech enabled predecessors: one-off fees (or retainers) in exchange for taking ownership of entire tasks or outcomes.

As investors today, we are hunting for problems that can be sold as outcomes instead of software. We are looking for businesses selling them as use cases that are repeatable and scalable; ones that can be done over and over again, to a very high quality and very quickly. From our research and diligence, we have uncovered 8 features shared by AI-powered service businesses that point to the potential of a venture scale outcome. Of course hitting a few of these is challenging. Confidently hitting all of them is rare.

1. Large addressable market

This has to be the starting point for any VC backed business. When we run this over the lens of AI powered service business, we’re looking to triangulate using  both ends of the spectrum: existing SaaS spend as well as the market for traditional services businesses.  Accounting is a good example of this dynamic in action. Decades ago, Xero and Quikbooks launched, selling accountants tools that made their jobs easier to perform. Both have been undeniable successes - growing into A$20BN and A$200BN companies respectively. Likewise, it’s estimated that the global spend on accounting services exceeds A$800BN2.

Startups like Hnry (automated tax services for self-employed people, delivered by both an AI concierge and accounting experts) and Thriday (automated accounting and tax that shows the health of your business in real-time) are well positioned to pull from both markets. Like traditional services firms, they offer end-to-end accounting services, and like SaaS, they use technology to make it affordable. A noble ambition for both could reasonably be growing to the size of a ‘Big 4’ firm, without the friction of scaling humans and the consequences of the business model attached to that. 

Others like Harvey are seeking to straddle both worlds, building a legaltech platform and AI co-pilots to power legacy law firms as they level-up their AI-powered capabilities. Whilst firmly a SaaS tool, co-pilot solutions like Harvey might be seen as ‘double dipping’ from both the existing legal software market, as well as the larger pool of ‘billable hours’ of junior legal professionals like paralegals.

2. Potential for strong gross margins

To be attractive to a VC investor, healthy margins need to be evident and achievable. The archetypal AI powered service business might achieve this through some variation on these dynamics:

1. Control the flow of information, in order to

2. Efficiently automate workflows through structured data and repeatable processes, leading to

3. A lower cost to serve and more scalable backends, and

4. A superior experience and the right to command a higher price point.

For example, in every engagement, Hnry controls the flow of information via a standardised intake form and on-platform functionality such as expense management and invoice generation. With structured data, preparing documents for submission (like tax returns) is significantly easier. Hnry’s  price point can be sizeable, accounting for 1% of users’ annual income. Yet their customers clearly see value for money, whilst a high transaction value leads to more room for margin. Arguably the only downside of the Hnry model is that a trusted advisor relationship is still a critical part of the customer experience - to do this well still requires human touch (for now).

3. High Lifetime Value

This is obtained through both a high transaction frequency as well the right to upsell and cross-sell. PropHero, (a platform that helps you build real estate wealth throughout your life, from finding high performing investment properties to guiding you through each step of the purchasing, financing, and management process) has proven their ability to cross-sell and upsell in their ecosystem. As users move through the journey of purchasing an investment property, PropHero supplements core revenue through their network of mortgage brokers, property surveyors, rental agents (to help secure tenants) and landlord insurers. It’s a tremendous value add to their users to serve up the right people, at the right time, with the stamp of approval from their vetted ecosystem. 

“Players who manage to orchestrate their ecosystem and become the "one-stop-shop" for users have the ability to get the best of both worlds: Scale through technology, and high revenue and margins from the services connected. We have a >80% cross-sell rate on all the verticals connected to our platform, as users look for the simplicity of having everything under one roof.” Mickael Roger, Co-Founder and CEO, Prophero

4. Efficient Distribution Model

Rightfully, our excitement regarding the potential of AI-powered services businesses is predominantly driven by the potential for AI to radically transform the product experience. That being said, taking the leap from a traditional services business also requires unlocking new scalable distribution channels.

Whilst ‘cracking go-to-market’ is a truism for all startups, it’s important to highlight here as of particular note for AI powered service businesses. Many scaled service providers (including those taking significant venture funding) have ultimately lost the ‘ground game’ against a field of smaller, leaner ‘mum-and-pop’ providers reliant on largely unscalable, but highly efficient channels - namely word of mouth in a given ‘micro-market’ (e.g. the local suburb). Success requires solving for both scale and efficiency (digital marketing alone is rarely enough) - and a tight understanding of your competitor’s CAC (even where they might be so small they might not  even know it themselves).

Practically, a powerful go-to-market motion looks like strong partner referrals, an engaged community (that become influencers and engage in word of mouth), healthy paid marketing economics and an organic SEO engine.  Everlab (a preventative health protocol that unlocks access to a premium preventative health service) has these features in play. Their first users are health forward tech enthusiasts and are vocal advocates for the brand. Everlab has wrapped its arms around this longevity community and invited them to be part of championing a new approach to health.  They activate this community via viral loops in their product - users proudly share and discuss their Everlab diagnostic results on forums and social media. Ultimately, this sticky, badge-worthy protocol is the backbone for their efficient distribution model via referrals and word of mouth.  

In a similar vein, PropHero also benefits from scalable referral dynamics. With consistent cadence, other marketplace providers are compelled to send customers PropHero’s way. Take mortgage brokers, who want to move approved applicants through the funnel by connecting them with tools that accelerate a purchase - like PropHero. Matilda Migration (an AI-powered digital migration agent), similarly reap the benefits of consistent referrals. Demand for visas is high and often concentrated in particular segments - like education and spousal visas; partnering with existing aggregation points such as  Enrola (an education comparison tool for vocational courses) presents an elegant referral channel for Matilda.

5. Market Dynamics

The best kind of market dynamics are fragmented markets with a long tail of smaller players, and no clear market leader. In services businesses especially, fragmentation can be correlated with low NPS, as standardisation across the industry is poor and players are less likely to differentiate on superior customer service versus alternative moats such as local distribution moats (e.g. being the only migration agent in the neighbourhood). Ultimately, this creates an attractive welcome mat for new arrivals. Conversely, a highly concentrated competitor base would be reluctant to allow a new intermediary into their market, and would be ready to fight the threat to their revenue by forcing prices down and squeezing margins. We need look no further than the travel industry to see this play out. The large airlines have all but obliterated the economics of online ticketing marketplaces, leading online travel agents to focus on hotels where fragmentation, and therefore the economics, are higher. 

Matilda are entering an optimal market dynamic, with an approachable service that guides migrants through the visa process simply and efficiently. In their industry, there is no clear market leader, with fragmented competition dotted throughout the landscape.  This paves the way for a smooth and largely uncontentious entrance.

6. Customer Dynamics

Successful AI powered service businesses are poised for growth when NPS is low, yet the emotional stakes surrounding the transaction are high. In the case of Matilda, we see this dynamic firmly at play. It’s hard to put into words how stressful, overwhelming and intimidating the process of migration can be; starting with the paperwork. Lives, and the lives of families, hang in the balance waiting for critical documentation to process. Yet a staggering 33% of migration agents receive complaints3. With this as a backdrop, Matilda entered the market. Their AI powered service automates much of the manual process surrounding visa documentation; reserving the human touch for critical moments. Due to the emotionality of the transaction, there is a potential that there will remain a preference to interact with a human for more than a few fleeting engagements. However, this can be overcome with proven parts of the DTC marketing playbook; particularly reviews, user generated content and product guarantees.

“Often the complexity sits at the start of the visa process, trying to understand which visa is appropriate for their circumstances. This is also, ordinarily, where people want support and guidance (and therefore human intervention). Once their circumstances have been assessed and a plan decided, the process is relatively straightforward - automation and AI supports the client to build their application.”  Niamh Mooney, Co-Founder of Matilda

7. Potential for Cornered Resource

When a business has exclusive access to a product or resource, via IP, their team, a distribution strategy or marketing engine, it is a positive signal that a business could be on the venture track. In the case of AI powered service businesses, this means ensuring any cornered resource can equally scale alongside the business

Take PropHero, their streamlined investment process creates immense value for not only buyers (their customers), but sellers as well - namely seller’s agents who are incentivised to minimise time on market provided they can find a fair price for the property. Hence, PropHero have quickly become the first place seller’s agents approach with new stock, not yet available to the rest of the market, further cementing a network effect and ensuring PropHero are able to adequately scale supply alongside demand.

8. Competitive Dynamics

Here, we’re looking at whether competition is well serviced by existing technology or not. Ideally, there should be an existing predisposition to technology, as well as some kind of moat to help avoid fast followers. In other words, the new entrant would choose a category where there is already familiarity with a tech-enabled solution and then design an AI-powered system that gives them a structural advantage over their traditional competitors. Predisposition to technology is critical here. In some categories, a human interface still matters. For example, while parts of the legal process can be accelerated with AI, there is still comfort in knowing that a person is on the hook for advice given. In the instance of PropHero, comfortability with browsing real estate online is already high thanks to the likes of REA and Domain, albeit  low when it comes to actually transacting (creating a gap for the team to neatly fill).

In summary, It’s no secret that AI has reduced barriers for entry. And while that’s good for startups looking to explore the idea maze, it’s also good for incumbents - arguably more so as they already have the advantages that scale brings; namely distribution, an existing customer base to cross sell to, and proprietary data built from years of operations. Ultimately, the fundamentals of building a venture scale business still matter and are unchanged - perhaps evident given the ‘universal’ nature of the above 8 factors. It’s not enough to just be an AI business, without finding a true competitive moat. If you have thoughts to add into the mix, we’d love to hear from you.

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Founder Hugh Dixson is an industry expert, having experienced the painful problems of inefficient supply chain integration firsthand at logistic and freight scale-up Ofload. In a short amount of time, Hugh and his team have built a product and onboarded early customers who are equally as excited about a world where digitisation removes the headaches that supply chains are famous for. In this interview, we hear from Hugh about life as a founder, his early affinity for how things work and his bent for action. For more information on the successful foundations of his business, check out our Investment Notes.

1. How did you get the idea for your business?
 

Before I founded Switchboard I was working at another startup in the logistics & supply chain industry - Ofload. In my roles there (first as Head of Operations, then as Head of Mergers & Acquisitions), I saw firsthand the enormous amount of manual process in the supply chains of many businesses of all different sizes and industries.

For example, it is common for companies of all industries and sizes to have multiple people manually entering and updating information in their IT systems (orders, inventory, transport and warehousing, etc). Staff were creating and emailing PDFs or screenshots or excel files to communicate with their suppliers, customers, and supply chain partners. Then someone at the other end has to manually enter these documents to their system as well... A very slow, manual, costly, error-prone process for 2024!

Given the size and complexity of the supply chain industry, I felt that there had to be a better answer. So, I founded Switchboard to build exactly that - a modern way for businesses to automatically and digitally exchange information required in their supply chain.

2. Talk us through your journey…How did it go from an idea to a living, breathing thing?

I had a good understanding of the pain point and a potential solution from my time in the industry, but I needed to broaden my understanding and validate my hypotheses. This meant (literally) hundreds of phone calls and discussions with people from a wide range of roles and companies across the industry, in dozens of countries. This allowed me to continually refine the idea and the way I communicated it. I am still doing this process even today, continuing to build out my network and understanding of different supply chain practices. It's a part of my job I love doing!

In parallel, I knew I needed to get funding to make it happen. There was a long process of meeting with lots of different people - early stage venture capital funds, angel investors, syndicates, and so on…

Eventually, I had enough understanding and industry support, and financial backing to get things started - hiring the initial team, starting the product build, and working hard to serve our initial customers.

3. What was the biggest barrier to getting your business off the ground? How did you overcome it?

I think there are actually 2 early hurdles that I should highlight:

1. The biggest hurdle is actually starting (and then sticking with it through the early trials and tribulations, see point 2). Plenty of people have great ideas and don’t ever take the “leap”.

2. Early doubt from prospective investors and customers (you will hear ‘no’ many, many times!). There are days where it can feel really hard and like you’re facing resistance from every angle, but then there are also days where everything you touch works and it all seems to click into place - all part of the rollercoaster that is early-stage businesses

The very un-exciting answer is that it was just about taking every call, every opportunity, and showing up every day. You never know which one call will lead to the introduction that unlocks something big.

The other key element was to get something out quickly. There is a balance between navigating through all the expert and industry calls to further refine your understanding and solution, and spinning your wheels for too long. Every business will have a different ‘incubation time’, but as soon as possible, you should start building and deploying and (most importantly) getting feedback! You must have a bias towards execution and delivery.

Once you get through these initial barriers and you’ve got a working product with a good set of customers and clear pathways forward, things start to flow a bit more. It’s never ‘easy’, but you start to get some momentum and that really helps, I promise.

4. What inspired you to make Switchboard work?

I’ve known for some time that founding a business interested me. It came down to a combination of landing on the idea that I wanted to pursue, and it being the right time for me both personally and professionally. I felt that I had the right combination of professional skills and experience from my career to date, plus the industry knowledge and connections to ensure Switchboard could reach its full potential.

5. Outside of your company, what are you into right now?

I’m trying to spend as much time as possible outdoors - so for me that means going for runs, walks (mostly with the dog), and playing golf! 

6. Who or what inspires you and keeps you focused on your north star?

At the moment, the growth is really exciting. We are at a stage where we are seeing lots of customer adoption and there are a wide range of people and companies across a range of industries that are enthusiastic about what we are doing. 

Seeing this business that started out as an idea and, after a lot of work, is now a fully functioning company is really motivating and keeps me and the team running hard to keep up the great trajectory we are on.

7. Talk us through a standard day in your life as a founder…

If there is such a thing… One of the great parts of being a founder is that there is a lot of variety in the work!

My days will normally involve a number of meetings with the team, or with potential or current customers or investors. The discussions can range from how we can work with different potential clients, how our product is going to develop, new business development strategies, and any number of other topics. I will often have some work to get done as well - including emails, preparing & reviewing materials for internal projects or for clients, updating models, and other bits and pieces that go with running a business.

I’m a morning person, so I normally try to get through part of my to-do list for the day early. This is sacred time for me, when it’s quiet and there aren’t the distractions of the day. It helps me get into a good rhythm for the day and build some momentum early.

I normally head into the office (or sometimes work from home) and then get into the day’s meetings and other work. 

In the evenings, I try to switch off for a couple of hours and have dinner and spend time with friends and family and then will get back into any work I need to close out.

There is lots of variety though - sometimes on days that aren’t as busy I can get out and do some exercise in the morning or take the dog for a walk and a coffee.

8. What unusual or childhood experiences prepared you for what you do today?
 

Since I was a young child, I’ve always loved transport and big machines - trucks, ships, planes, etc. My mum always says she isn’t surprised at all I ended up in the supply chain industry! Not sure that it was essential preparation, but I’ve always had a fascination for the industry.

9. What is your golden rule that you try to live and work by?
 

Attitude is everything - do everything you touch with intent and effort and you’ll be amazed at the high standard you set (and achieve) for yourself and those around you.

10. What advice would you have for anyone looking to take the plunge?

It’ll be hard, but it’s worth it. There will be shaky moments, especially in the early days, but just keep showing up and putting in the effort (with that stellar attitude), and things will generally work themselves out.

It is definitely important to do your research and make sure you fully understand the problem space and your potential solution. However, when you feel ready (or maybe even a little bit before that), start trying to actually make it happen. Depending on your context that can mean a few different things (getting funding, getting a team, deploying a lite MVP, etc). Until the rubber meets the road, you don’t know anything.

Digitisation of operations (through the likes of ERPs, inventory management systems, and online marketplaces) has been a major unlock in increasing the ability for businesses to manage their suppliers, inventory, and customer relationships. However the siloed nature of these systems has often meant that connectivity and interoperability has lagged.

Many businesses still rely on ‘paper & pen’ processes, copying from email, or manual input of data between systems to do business. Even more sophisticated enterprises rely on bespoke integrations to communicate between systems or across organisation, using a framework known as electronic data interchange (EDI), first introduced in the 1970s. However, this too introduces its own set of problems, as integrations have historically been built on a bespoke, ‘point-to-point’ basis, with a cottage industry of EDI consultants and developers, charging large upfront fees that price out all but the highest volume partnerships.

Thankfully, Switchboard are on a mission to redefine a new normal for the industry via their shared supply chain integration platform. Businesses need only integrate once with Switchboard in order to exchange data with any supply chain system, including suppliers, customers, and logistics providers. Founded by Hugh Dixson, Switchboard aspires to be the connective tissue for supply chains across the globe.

AfterWork are delighted to be two-time backers of the Switchboard team, reinvesting in their latest seed round alongside Investible, TEN13, Skalata, and Archangel as well as their pre-seed round in late 2022. 

What we loved about the opportunity

Bringing the backbone of the modern economy into the modern era

EDI connections form the digital backbone of the supply chain for manufacturers, retailers, distributors, and logistics providers. Yet it is widely acknowledged that building EDI connections are often inefficient, time-consuming and expensive.

More specifically, whilst EDI technology itself is an elegant solution to a thorny problem, issues typically arise due to the lack of standard processes to connect with, onboard and manage trading partners. Between multiple trading partners (e.g. suppliers), each might transact using different channels, file formats, and data requirements, resulting in bespoke customisation and maintenance for each ‘link’ in the supply chain.

Switchboard’s insight is in leveraging the best parts of the EDI framework and maintaining the accepted practices of the industry, whilst building a modern platform to mitigate the time and effort required for customers to build, add, and maintain new connections within their supply chain. Much like how Zapier built the middleware ‘glue’ to connect the vast network of web apps, Switchboard is building a single integration point to connect any supply chain systems their customers and their trading partners might use.

Building software network effects on top of supply chain network

Network effects occur when a product is able to create incrementally more value with each new user it services. Some of the largest tech companies in the world are built upon the value of their network - lauded both for the raw value they are able to create for their customers, as well as the moat-like effects they build to prevent competitors snapping at their heels. SaaS businesses (and their VC investors) are rightfully obsessed with identifying network effects at play and understanding how they can be leveraged in their own businesses.

Switchboard’s middleware solution is a natural fit for this thesis, leveraging the inherent trading networks already present in customers’ supply chains as the blueprint for a software network effect of their own. It’s clear to see how the value proposition for Switchboard is so much greater for a customer when 10 of their trading partners are already live on the platform from day 1.

Likewise, these existing networks offer natural pathways for the closely related concept of virality - in which new customers quickly expose a multiplicative number of their trading partners to Switchboard’s offering and seed potential exponential growth!

Strong achievements on the smell of an oily rag

AfterWork has been proud to back Hugh and the Switchboard team since their pre-seed round in late 2022. We’ve been blown away by their ability to achieve so much from a standing start, including bringing a working product to market and into the hands of early customers including a number of household logos.

Switchboard’s success can only be attributed to Hugh’s intimate knowledge of the problem space prior to building Switchboard, both in terms of functional exposure and professional experience to build this business. As employee #5 at logistic and freight scale-up Ofload, Hugh saw first-hand the inefficiencies and common failure modes of transport communication that led him to Switchboard. Likewise, as part of the Australian Uber business prior, Hugh has lived the journey from fledgling startup to meaningful scaleup turned tech giant that puts him in great stead to lead Switchboard on a similar journey.

The Challenges we saw

Kickstarting the flywheel of network effects

Whilst incredibly powerful at scale, network effects are notoriously difficult to kickstart - the so-called ‘cold start problem. The key challenge of businesses like Switchboard is ensuring sufficient value is created for customers 1, 10, 100 and beyond. Thankfully, the status quo of EDI integrations suggests there is plenty of value to be created in connecting even the first 2 trading partners on the Switchboard platform.

Similarly, the nature of Switchboard as the connective tissue between distinct organisations (i.e. trading partners) introduces a unique complexity to their go-to-market motion; requiring ‘activation’ of trading partners on top of a traditional sales motion. The answer here is inevitably a combination of product and sales; the former placing the onus on Switchboard to ensure trading partner onboarding is as seamless and friction-free as possible, whilst the latter requires working hand-in-glove with customers to take their trading partners on the journey.

Getting the unit economics right in the short term

The power of Switchboard’s solution is the deep repeatability of their tech solution, and the ability to re-use integrations for systems shared across multiple customers. Nonetheless, in the short term creating these integrations inevitably resembles much of the one-off work of the EDI consultants Switchboard is looking to replace.

Symmetrically, the reallocation of what was historically a capex investment to recurring opex is the foundation of SaaS as a business model. Yet short term unit economics, and managing of cash conversion cycles for upfront product and integration builds is a key consideration as Switchboard’s shift from a stable (yet capped upside) ‘time & materials’ services model to consumption-based pricing akin to their more natural middleware peers.

Questions we had for the team

Is there enough activation energy to shift a legacy industry into a new norm for EDI connections?

Ultimately, Switchboard are taking a bet that their modern approach to a legacy problem will resonate with an industry that has been stuck in a suboptimal state for decades. Supply chain and logistics represent the ‘last horizon’ for digitisation, with high technical and operational barriers to entry.

There is huge economic value to be created in reorienting the industry around a shared platform where the burden of connectivity and EDI can be effectively shared across the network via Switchboard’s unified platform. However doing so requires taking a leap into the unknown as we move away from a services-led model, and rallying enough early believers around a shared mission to inspire the early majority in quick succession.

At the end of the day, we take confidence in knowing Hugh and the Switchboard team are the right individuals to crack this knot. Complementing Hugh’s past first hand experiences at Ofload and Uber witnessing similar industries break out of an inefficient equilibrium to a new global maxima using tech.

How we built conviction

When we first met Hugh we were blown away by the clarity of thought he brought to the industry and problem statement Switchboard was seeking to address. Since then we’ve been impressed twice over to see his ability to quickly build and scale a working platform, rally early customers around a shared vision, and put Switchboard on the track to becoming the connective tissue of supply chains across the globe.

The devices we use today - computers, phones, and TV screens, limit our inputs to what we can type or touch. Spatial computing is effectively expands computing into responsive and layered experiences, that incorporates vision, hearing, and touch.

The spatial computing revolution is gaining momentum. The global spatial computing market is predicted to grow at a CAGR of 22.3% from 2024 to 2033, reaching $815.2 billion USD1.

Meta, Alphabet, Microsoft and Amazon are all piling in to reap the benefits, and consumer demand is starting to grow. 200,000 Apple Vision Pros were sold in the first ten days after launch on January 9, 20242. This accelerated interest in immersive experiences comes after leaps made in the hardware itself (computational power and sensor technology), following years of investment from big tech players and the developments made in other areas like AI, the IoT and 5G connectivity.

Spatial Computing 101

There are a few technologies that have enabled leaps in visualisation capabilities.

1. Computer Vision: this takes data from cameras and sensors and uses it to capture visual information about the environment - like position, movement and orientation of objects.

2. Sensor Fusion: data from sensors, like cameras and LiDARS, create an accurate view of the environment

3. Spatial Mapping: this is used to create 3D models of an environment, which makes it easier for precise placement of digital content.

4. Seamless Control: rather than rely on a mouse click, we can now control outputs via simple hand and eye gestures.

These combine to make depth possible to experience. Now, we can have realistic, natural and immersive experiences with virtual objects. We can create them, move them, manipulate and hide them in a way that we can in the real world. The applications are varied and impressive; from checking out whether a new sofa fits in your living room, to learning how to perform heart surgery, to a live product demonstration of the mechanics of a jumbo jet.

As investors, our attention is turning to the different models that will emerge. Of course there’s the hardware itself, and the application layers on top.

There will be both horizontal players - that come with a broad application and work across sectors (like Meta), or vertical players that own a sector or have a specific use case (like Netflix).  When we think about applications in the specific field, will the eventual winners be
horizontal platforms that support many use cases, or vertical players that own specific pillars such as medical learning, with products tailored to the institutional nuances of the medical world?

What changes are afoot

We’ve been on the journey of making experiences more immersive, sticky and memorable for a while. From the first picture movies, to videos on a smart phone to the new Apple vision pro, we’re seeking experiences as real and meaningful as our tech allows. 

Within the spatial realm, we moved from Pokemon Go -  that whipped kids and adults into a frenzy finding their favourite Pokemon characters jump off their phone and ‘appear’ in the real world; to Oculus Rift, used primarily by gamers who wanted virtual environments they could interact with; to Apple Vision Pro, which is showcasing the powers of immersion, beyond gaming. 

Without a real reason to be, technology can get gimmicky fast. No matter the application, developers need a clear articulation of what they do and why it makes people's lives better - either at work or in play. Those that flock to create an immersive way to experience their existing product will likely see disappointment. After all, no-one is craving a deeper exploration of receiving an email! While this may be 101 of product management, it’s easy to get swept up in hype cycles and lose sight of building something that matters.

Hardware becoming more affordable

Apple Vision Pro currently retails at $3500 USD. The ‘Pro’ in the title suggests that there will be a cheaper, ‘everyday’ version coming out soon. Normally, technology prices drop noticeably every 2 years, and when that happens, we expect to see an uptick in usage. It’s also worth remembering how most technology is met with resistance before we embrace it and integrate it into our lives.  

Upgraded Zoom meetings

Spatial computing allows for more powerful presence; which makes for richer, deeper and more memorable connections. This has application for both workplaces trying to foster more intimacy in the face of remote working; and also our personal relationships, helping to bridge distance, foster intimacy and augment meaning. With the cost of living forcing more families to live further apart than ever before, this matters. 

VR has sometimes been criticised for being isolating experiences, compounding fears around the damage tech can do to interpersonal relationships. The next generation of innovators must overcome this limitation to create connected experiences.

Whole-body haptic experiences

Haptic gloves, bodysuits, and similar tools simulate the feeling of actually touching a digital object. Although these solutions have seen limited adoption in recent years, that could change as new vendors enter the market with more affordable options.

It feels like mindreading

With computers and devices today, we look at something we find interesting, then move our finger or mouse to click on it. Already with the Apple Vision Pro, thanks to gaze detection, you can just look at something and it will be selected. This leap has removed a step between our intent and the outcome. If we play this out further, we might see another step removed - for example, our intent is understood even before we know it’s our intent - and the ability to react in real time is realised. To understand intent and predict our next moves with accuracy, we’ll need to see predictive AI integrated with spatial computing. This means machines will need to understand the context as well as usage patterns in order to predict in a way that feels welcome, and not intrusive. If the tech works, users will enjoy seamless experience that verges on mind reading. When it doesn’t quite work, it feels clunky and invasive.

Who Will Win

It’s hard to talk about winners in this space and not mention the big players, who have been spending like they mean it. 

• Meta acquired Oculus VR in 2014 for $2BN, who went on to release the headsets Oculus Rift and Oculus Quest, as well as the VR content and gaming engine Oculus Studio. The company’s rebrand to ‘Meta’ in 2021 is a powerful statement about their intent to win the spatial race.

• Meanwhile, Apple developed ARKit in 2017, which allows developers to build AR experiences for IOS devices that overlay digital content onto the real world. It has since released its Apple Vision Pro headset and posit themselves as an attractive partner for nascent spatial developers in the hope to replicate their strategy for phones; to become the ultimate app platform. 

• Amazon’s spatial experiments are designed to enhance the shopping experience. They developed Sumerian, which lets developers create immersive 3D shopping experiences with ease and d Amazon AR view, which enables shoppers to experience product visualisations in their physical space. They are also experimenting with their own wearable device, Echo Frames. At this point, they are smart glasses with Alexa built in and lack spatial features. However, it could become an entry point into the space. 

• Finally, Microsoft have developed their own headset, called HoloLens, that allows users to engage with holograms overlaid on the real world. On top of this, they have built apps and platforms of their own. Like the accessibility app, Seeing AI, that uses computer vision to describe the world to visually impaired people. It can read text, identify objects, recognise faces and even interpret emotions. Or Azure and Windows Mixed Reality Services, that helps developers build AR experiences and games for Windows products. Additionally, they have made some notable acquisitions in 2016/2017, like Altspace VR (now part of the mixed reality division), Simplygon and Minecraft Edu.

Improved UX

Early users seem to agree that right now, the primary use case is the ability to seamlessly toggle between your watch, phone, and laptop in an immersive way, at your desk.

While this might not be the future we had in mind, there’s hope that simple augmentation of day to day life will emerge. For example, everyday interactions could become enhanced, with digital information overlaid into the real world making everything from real time navigation that helps you figure out a new environment with ease, to language translation when you’re travelling, to relevant contextual information appearing as you buy something in store. Take immersive fitness, like Minimis technology, that make glasses with AR functionality improves safety, while enhancing the rider’s experience.

Immersive learning experiences

The implications for learning are immense. Being able to experience lessons in immersive, dynamic and layered environments will accelerate knowledge transfer, while also making the lessons more indelible. However, it’s hard to see who will pay for it. Schools, universities and learning institutions are often budget constrained and struggling to keep pace with change - as well as their role in the modern education landscape. Cracking the education system means finding a business model that works.

Democratising healthcare

Spatial has the power to transform healthcare; from medical training, to remote consultations, to machinery demonstrations and experiential rehabilitation programs. Each of these have the ability to improve outcomes and broaden reach while stripping costs out.

As a result, there’s a level of democratisation in reach. Imagine living 1000km for a major hospital and still being able to receive a niche surgery by your local doctor, guided by an expert surgeon, who is able to ‘be’ in the operating theatre with you.

Enhancing sales

The sales process stands to be accelerated by demonstrations that allow the potential buyer to see a product in situ, inspect its inner workings, see its component parts and learn how it works. This is useful for a range of sales applications, from buying furniture, to buying cars, to booking a holiday, to industrial machinery, hospital equipment and even architecture designs.  3D modelling has been an expensive and time consuming strain on architects for years; and can now be delivered by software that turns a CAD file into a 3D model, ready for interaction.

Training and collaboration

Imagine being able to collaborate with engineers in real time, with a shared 3D view of what you are building. Compared to reading a brochure, or watching a video, the richness that comes from isolating component parts, watching their movements, annotating the specifics and watching how machinery works is immense. Not only does this speed up product development time, but assists in training teams and accelerating down time needed for repairs.

Captivating marketing

In our article on the future of DTC, we spoke about the changing role of retail and its increasing focus on creating immersive, theatrical experiences that dazzle - and warrant a selfie. Spatial can build on this foundation, allowing marketers to offer intimate experiences to both loyal fans and brand newcomers. Imagine being able to accompany Ferran Adrià on a spice tour in a Moroccan souk, or take a stroll down the streets of Paris alongside Coco Chanel with the 1920s in full swing, or be a fly on the wall at the Ferrari team’s design meeting. Technology has already given rise to superfan communities and spatial will allow this to go deeper.

Enriched entertainment

For many, their first exposure to spatial will be through the lens of entertainment, whether gaming, movies or TV shows. It’s not hard to see why an audience experience where the content is even more real is desirable. Despite the current hardware barrier, this is likely where we will first see mass adoption. However, it’s likely that the way we tell stories will change. As spatial makes it possible to meet, interact and immerse yourself into a new world, we are no longer bound by the confines of linear storytelling, or stories with one fixed outcome. In essence, we are moving from spectator to participant; which gives new meaning to the word immersive. On top of this, live events, concerts and sports will take place in virtual arenas, with the joy of being able to attend with friends and family from all over the world commonplace.

A new era of gaming

Gaming has been an early experimental playground for spatial computing. Gaming has become more immersive (thanks to AR/VR and haptics), with more interaction, more sociability and more responsiveness to local environments. For example, Supercell created Clash Quest AR that invited players to stage battles on real world surfaces for a richer experience. The developments are allowing the world to become one big game.

AI metaverse

Spatial creates immersive environments where people can interact with each other, in a whole new context. With avatars that can mimic real time communication and collaboration, applications are growing beyond gaming and entertainment to reach the workplace. Virtual HQ’s are up and running at places like Meta, Roblox and Epic Games. As our ability to merge physical and digital continue to develop, and avatar functionality improves; meeting in metaverses could become more common.

Who’s Making Waves

JigSpace

JigSpace is a comprehensive technology platform that seamlessly enables the creation, sharing, and viewing of 3D presentations known as 'Jigs'.   Very simply, a user can upload a CAD file and it automatically converts into a 3D model that you can tinker with, in real time. With an immersive, animated and detailed 3D ‘jig’ in front of you, the use cases are many: from understanding how equipment and machinery works, to training and education, to real life sales demonstrations - and even immersive marketing experiences.

Starline

Project Starline is an experimental video communication method currently in development by Google that allows the user to see a 3D model of the person they are communicating with. The goal of starline is to make people feel like they are there, together - and intended applications range from better workplace communication to closing the distance between families scattered around the world.

Niantic Labs

The makers of Pokemon Go generated US $670 million in 2023. With the help of their community, Niantic Labs want to map the world “to the centimetre” so that developers can anchor digital content into the physical world. Their goal is to foster connectivity and bring people in communities closer. The base product would enable the world to become one giant game of pokemon go.

Lumus

Lumus develops transparent display technology for AR glasses. Their displays can overlay contextual digital content superimposed onto a real world view. The applications are broad, but include trainings (medical, pilot and more), fitness, physio and coaching as well as workplace communications like holographic calls and real time project collaboration. They believe their technology will make mobile phones redundant.

Scope AR WorkLink

This AR platform for enterprise applications focuses on remote assistance and trainings. It allows users to create and share AR instructions and guides, enabling remote workers to receive real-time guidance and support through AR glasses or smartphones.

Blippar

This augmented reality app combines computer vision with AR to recognize and interact with physical objects and images. Users can point their device's camera at various items, such as products or advertisements, to unlock additional content and experiences.

AmazeVR Concerts

This app is designed give music fans a front-row seat to concerts, with live action 3D footage of their favourite artists, in beautifully rendered virtual environments. This tool can democratise access and overcome barriers of geography, and in time, affordability.

Healium

This mindfulness app describes itself as a' ‘drugless solution for burnout’. It takes a new approach to meditation, with AR and VR experiences, powered by your body’s electricity. As you reach states of focus or quiet of the mind, the bio and neuro feedback wearables pick up pattern changes and power the meditation experience forward. All data is captured on a dashboard so you can train your brain to manage anxiety and focus on an ongoing basis.

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10 years from now

In the not too distant future, we can expect to see seamless integration of digital experiences and information into the physical world. The implications are far-reaching, impacting how we work, learn, communicate, consume and unwind. 

Retail experiences will continue to evolve with virtual-try ons and in-home visualisation diminishing the need to visit a store.  At work, we can expect enhanced collaboration, with virtual workspaces allowing real time modelling, presentations and meetings to close geographical distances and increase intimacy. These signals point to a more empowered remote workforce, allowing people to achieve greater work life balance by choosing where they want to live.

How we get around will change too. With AR overlays and VR simulations, town planners and architects will be able to pressure test the impact of their visions before implementation. At the same time, access to real time information should ease traffic and congestion. Further, real-time data about air quality, pollution levels, and weather conditions will help us make informed decisions in the moment.

On the medical front, we have high hopes for the role of spatial to democratise healthcare access and affordability. With advanced medical training, surgical simulation and telemedicine consultants, the implications are immense. We see medical students able to receive better, more hands-on training before they graduate; and the ability for practitioners to deliver better care, more efficiently and remotely. Beyond the medical classroom, applications to learning are exciting and far-reaching. Imagine being able to explore the history of your neighbourhood with digital landmarks, get a virtual tour of the solar system,  conduct virtual science experiments or meet and chat with Charlotte Bronte. Powered by AI, these experiences will be tailored to individual learning needs and further increase effectiveness. We will also see students from all different pockets of the globe brought together in virtual classrooms, allowing everyone to benefit from the powers of diversity.

50 years from now

Talking about the future is always challenging, especially when the subject matter is evolving so rapidly. Broadly, we see three sweeping areas of change that spatial unlocks in the far future.

1. From phones to contact lenses: We’ll ditch these intrusive devices and instead rely on contact lenses (having moved on from glasses) that augment reality and deliver immersive experiences. They’ll be able to seamlessly annotate, explain, interact and transact in the real world in a manner far less disruptive to flow than pulling out a phone.

2. Brain Computer Interfaces (BCI) Meet Spatial: In the future, we see spatial working with BCI’s to deliver immersive experiences that respond to your bio and neuro information, in real time - with the goal of helping you make better choices. Imagine being diverted to walk through a park to help regulate your nervous system, or receiving suggestions on what to order off a menu based on your metabolic information, or receiving live performance coaching mid-tennis match.

3. Avatars Abound: Flash forward 50 years and we’ll be interacting with avatars in a way that feels indistinguishable to our human relationships. We’ll have AI friends, be able to take a tour of the Colosseum with an AI tour guide, have significant romantic relationships and AI celebrity guest lecturers teaching university curriculum. We’re already seeing the foundations of this bubble up. Artist FKA Twigs recently created a digital twin to talk to press and engage with fans so she can spend more time making music. Meanwhile LinkedIn founder Reid Hoffman trained an AI algorithm using articles, blogs, podcasts and books he’d crafted to power his own avatar. Then, in a Black Mirror twist, ‘real’ Reid interviewed ‘avatar’ Reid with the goal of uncovering insights into his own perspectives, arguments and persuasion techniques, by being on the receiving end.

Panel 1: Breaking Ground: How Emerging Fund Managers Ventured into Venture

In our first panel, Alex Khor, Cheryl Mack, Matt Browne and Kylie Frazer share how they are flipping the script to make their mark on the VC landscape and the new requisite skills required to navigate the rapidly changing VC ecosystem. They’ll also discuss their views on the transformative forces shaping VC; from the rise of new investment trends and technologies, to new funding models, to the pulse of emerging markets.

Panel 2: Brand Experience Unleashed: Why The Era of Cx Is Over

In this panel, 4 visionary DTC founders will discuss the shift in focus from merely satisfying customer needs to creating immersive and engaging brand experiences that are both memorable and meaningful. Georgia Danos (Gem), May Bandi (Skipper), Rachel Wilde (tbh) and Sam Naparstek (Rocco) will unpack their approach to creating iconic, enduring brands, while diving deep into the realm of brand storytelling, emotional engagement and experiential marketing.

Community News

Some powerhouses in our community are also planning to step up to the SxSW stage, so please check them out and send some votes their way too.

• Lucy Wark is putting forward a discussion on “How to Pivot Your Career: Lessons From Being Fired & Professional Setbacks to Starting a Sex Toy Company & Coaching Hundreds of People Through Career Transitions”.

• Gabriel Guedes is proposing a panel called “Can we double pet life spans by 2050? A vision for healthier, longer-living companions.”

• Tim Rossanis and Tim Fung are slated to take part in a proposed live podcast recording called “The Contrarians with Adam and Adir - Marketplace Disruptors: A Balancing Act”.

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5. Use the search bar to search for ‘breaking ground’  or ‘brand experience unleashed’.

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Big thanks in advance for the support.

But our fridges are lagging. Especially bar fridges - until Rocco entered the room. Rocco are a modern appliance brand, with a $1500 USD smart bar fridge as their first product to launch. The Rocco fridge is sophisticated, sleek and designed to be both functional and attractive. It doubles as a drinks cart and a bar fridge, while featuring sub-zero compression and a smart system that makes re-ordering drinks a breeze.

Rocco’s launch went off with a bang. In their first 2 months, they completely sold out of their initial batch of fridges, received 39 pieces of press, racked up 153 million digital impressions and even got the likes of Stanely Tucci experiencing their product. Since launch, they have sold out of their first 4 production runs and have almost sold through the next.

What we loved about the idea

A co-founding team that have proven their consumer chops many times over

In Rocco, we found two consumer superstars, with complementary skill sets. Sam Naparstek led Product Development at D2C luggage pioneer Away, joining the team as employee #5 before helping steer the company through a period of incredible growth. His experience in the luggage category gave him both a sharpened eye for best in class product design, as well as the key relationships, to embark on the journey with another large durable good in home appliances.

Meanwhile, Alyse Borkan is an undisputed brand and marketing boffin, having flexed her muscles on the startup journeys at Billie, Casper and SoulCycle. As head of Brand at Billie, Alyse steered the brand through a tactical launch phase, with a laser-like focus on ROI, a firm grip on CAC and hands on the tools experience. At the same time, she masterfully built a differentiated and enviable brand, that delivered breakthrough and category-leading work. 

The union of Alyse and Sam, and their respective spikes, around a new, exciting product in the Rocco fridge was one for the ages.

The underpinnings of a venture scale consumer brand

If you’re anything like us, your first question might be, why fridges? We’ve previously unpacked our thinking on what we believe makes an attractive D2C consumer business here and believe Rocco meets, and defies, the mark of excellence. 

First up, there’s the market itself. The bar fridge market size is predicted to reach US$8 billion by 2028, with natural scope to expand into the US$600 billion large appliance market. These markets have established large players, with very few breakthrough brands emerging. This is largely unsurprising, given the non-trivial nature of manufacturing bulk appliances and electronics. Yet behind these initial barriers to entry (a feat Rocco has achieved, thanks to the product design and sourcing chops of the team) lies a business with attractive CPG fundamentals: a sizeable TAM, attractive cash conversion cycles, and the benefits of being a standout brand in a new category of smart fridges.

To make this picture even more attractive, Rocco is exploring partnerships with key retailers, having already launched with 4 Nordstrom stores, and proving that a retail partnership model works.

A greenfield category with reasons to believe we’re ready for a sexy bar fridge

In a design forward world, fridges have been left behind - both the bar fridge and their larger friends. Consumers are increasingly house proud and willing to drop their dollars on stylish appliances. On top of this, there’s also been a proliferation of drinks, both alcoholic and non-alcoholic. In fact, we’re spending 75% more on drinks than we did 5 years ago: we take our drinks seriously and need a fridge to match. Finally, we’re working from and entertaining at home more often - we need a dedicated space for our drinks.

"Finally being able to see Rocco in people's homes has been incredible. We intentionally designed the product to seamlessly blend into anyone's personal style, and already we're seeing how Rocco really appeals to anyone from those that have a house that looks like it could be its own zip code in Arizona filled with ultra modern furniture to a smaller NYC apartment with vintage finds." – Sam Naparstek, co-founder of Rocco

Positioned as an upper mass / lower premium product, Rocco’s fridge is not an impulse purchase, but not one that requires financing either. To help build the brand and justify the purchase, the team continue to push their stylistic credentials; partnering with designers on limited edition runs and even designer magnets.

This buzzing activity is all happening in a world where nobody loves their fridge. Most people cannot recall the brand of their fridge, engagement with fridges on social is a low 0.001%, with an average NPS score of 20. Rocco are already challenging what an appliance brand can look and sound like; sharing cocktail recipes, stocking tips and even ‘house rules’. We have seen through the emergence of cult brands like Vintec (acquired by Electrolux) that niche products, well marketed, can occupy a more meaningful place in our lives and create cut through rare for the category.

Challenges we saw

Baking in defensibility and keeping copy cats at bay

Unlike categories like skincare or even mattresses, it’s not easy to build a fridge. The complexity of manufacturing bulk appliances provides a natural short-term moat for Rocco. On top of this, the team has hit the market with a level of differentiation through their vision system that can identify low levels of drinks, just from looking at your phone. You don't even need to open your fridge to check if levels are comfortably stocked. Additionally, their designer collaborations (mentioned above), allow Rocco to add freshness and desirability into their offer, without the burden of R&D costs.

Effectively funding inventory cycles

Capital efficiency is key for any startup, and as we’ve seen recently; the undoing of many hardware businesses. Thankfully, through a combination of attractive unit economics and a hand-in-glove relationship with manufacturing partners, Rocco are able to achieve best-in-class cash conversion cycles - allowing them to reinvest (or pre-invest) sales into growth very effectively, without having to rely on more expensive sources of capital. This is a real superpower for Rocco.

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Questions we had for the team

How do you think about upselling a one-off hardware sale?

Alyse was brimming with ways to help elevate the role of the fridge in our homes. Rocco has already partnered with large beverage companies to delight customers upon initial purchase, while also exploring concepts like monthly tasting clubs and hosted pop-up evenings. However, the goal of the vision system is to become an integral part of consumer’s grocery purchase cycles and leverage the data captured to help beverage companies better understand their consumers.

Are all consumer brands built alike?

Alyse got her reps selling FMCG products like razors and skincare products. We wondered whether the same playbook that made those products fly off the digital shelves would hold true for more considered purchases with a long replacement cycle, like a mass-premium appliance. As Rocco continues to extend their reach into physical stores (through partnerships with the likes of Nordsrom), Rocco will benefit from a vehicle that makes it easy to touch, feel and experience the product firsthand. Aside from this, we got comfort from seeing a marketing playbook that balanced brand and performance marketing, while focusing on a press heavy launch plan that nudged the brand deeper into established and reputable design circles. It’s hard to recall a fridge having the right to appear in places like Architectural Digest and Town & Country. This is social proof, at a higher level.

"The hardest part about our marketing so far has been having restraint. We've been overwhelmed by how many drink brands, like-minded startups, content creators, and designers have reached out to us to work together. We're excited to expand what we're doing while continuing to prioritize the things that are having the biggest impact. In exciting news, we recently had our first piece of content really go viral with more than a million views – it tripled our followers!" – Alyse Borkan, co-founder of Rocco

How we built conviction

Ultimately, we grew excited to join the Rocco story by interrogating the consumer fundamentals and from in depth discussions with the team around the Rocco moat and the marketing playbook. It’s not everyday that macro tailwinds, attractive unit economics and product and marketing whitespace emerge. So join us as we raise a glass to Sam, Alyse and team and watch as the world clears their living rooms to make way for their designer drinks fridge!

Who came to dinner?

What we desire is a deeply personal topic that can leave us feeling exposed and vulnerable. On that note, we’d like to say a very big thank you to our passionate diners for their honest, insightful and revelatory perspectives; and for creating a safe space to explore such an intimate subject.

From left to right: Paloma Newton, Annabel Acton, Edmond Stewart, Jo Lanyon, Adrian Petersen, Kerrydan Flory, Kat Carmichael, Ariel Hersh, Collin Li, Fab Mackojc, Sam Kothari and Lucy Wark.

Not pictured: Jessy Wu (busy taking the pic) and Zezan Tam (a reluctant apology, who kindly shared his thoughts on the topic despite missing the feast!). 

What was on the menu?

As always, we paired delicious food with delicious conversation prompts.

What did we learn?

It’s hard to crunch 4 hours of conversation into some snippets, but here are the key things that bubbled up for the group.

🎭 Mimesis vs Inspiration: At its core, mimetic desire is not about inspiration, but about copying. The word itself comes from ancient Greek and means ‘to mime’. This suggests a level of subconscious involvement with mimetic desire. When it happens, you’re not fully aware that what you crave is being shaped and moulded by external forces. Inspiration, on the other hand, suggests an element of choice and personal orchestration - you’ve soaked up various sources of influence and are actively putting them together in your own way.

😬 It’s uncomfortable: when you unpack this topic, it’s hard not to squirm. Are we really just a collection of everyone else’s desires? Where’s my agency in all this? Aren’t I unique and capable or original thought? Am I really a lemming throwing my dollars at other people’s idea of what constitutes a good life? But we soon came to realise that there’s some clear benefits to mimetic desire. Which brings us to our next point.

🙌 It ain’t all bad: First up, our tastes and desires quickly become shorthand for our identity and connection. This is useful. The idea of every choice we make becoming a statement or point of controversy feels unnecessarily exhausting. On top of this, sometimes seeing what others prioritise and desire can pave the way for us to try new things, expand our tastes and evolve the limiting definitions we may hold of ourselves. There’s clear value to mimetic desire, the trick is to be aware of it.

🪤It’s inescapable: Early on in our conversation, there were many examples of people feeling like they needed to defend their choices; the car they bought, the holiday they took, the career they chose or the course they studied. This raises the interesting question, is it in our interest to free ourselves from mimetic desire? And if that is the goal, is it even possible? It’s hard to imagine any desire that hasn't been shaped by others somehow. And what value comes from defending our desires as non-mimetic? 

⏪ It can work in reverse: Sometimes, we see people lusting after something and deliberately make a contrarian choice to do the opposite. This ties into identity in a big way; we see people that we don't identify with choose one thing, so we go and choose the opposite. Of course there is truth to choosing something that feels like us, but there’s also truth in choices that challenge and undermine the desires of others

🧠 Awareness is key: Much like cognitive bias, the best way to approach mimetic desire is to be aware of it happening. It helps to be fully present and conscious with your whole self, which means embracing the duality of being an individual, while also existing within relationships, families and communities. When we choose what we want with awareness and intent, we get the chance to balance our desires as an individual with how we fit within the world we operate in. We liked the approach of labelling the desire, recognising its source, then making a choice that feels good for you.

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About out dinners

AfterWork Ventures’ One Conversation Dinner Parties assemble a group of 10 people, each of whom bring a distinctive and opinionated perspective on a topic, shaped by the unique experiences they’ve had in life and work.

We’re guided by a ‘conversational menu’ which guides us through topics against a theme. As a group, we agree to:

1. Adopt a ‘yes and’ mentality - approaching the conversation with curiosity and openness to having our perspective changed.

2. Hold silence. Some people need a few beats before they feel comfortable wading into a conversation. Unless we hold silence, conversations become dominated by those who feel most comfortable jumping in.

3. Collectively create the activation energy to dig deeper and think harder.

If you’re interested in joining one of our delicious discussions, follow us on LinkedIn for more details.

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Avarni is entering the market with a timely and potent decarbonisation solution. It is a carbon accounting and emissions management tool that accurately and efficiently measures Scope 3 emissions; then helps companies engage and incentivise their suppliers to reduce their emissions in order to remain preferred suppliers. Co-founders Misha Cajic and Anuj Paudel have been friends for 13 years and bring the right level of passion and expertise to crack this notoriously difficult nut. In a short amount of time, they brought the Avarni product to market, landed some high-profile logos and built excitement for their mission to “decarbonise the world’s supply chains”.

Charting the course to net zero doesn’t just happen with the press of a button. Businesses face two important challenges to get there. First, they must measure their organisation’s carbon footprint. This includes capturing the requisite data, both from within the business and beyond (third parties and suppliers), as well as correctly navigating the uncertainty associated with underlying assumptions. The next step involves turning captured data into insight; and understanding the levers for improvement, creating the business case for change, and mobilising against them. Avarni’s software offers value throughout this entire sequence; either as an independent tool or with the help of key partners.

We are proud to be supporters of the Avarni team, joining their most recent funding round led by Main Sequence Ventures, along with our friends at Sprint Ventures.

What we loved about the idea

The journey to net zero is long… and just beginning

You’d have to be living under a rock to not notice the speed at which ESG, specifically net zero, has become a major tenet of modern capitalism. Amongst large enterprises and funds management businesses, ESG reporting, strategy, and action has become a de facto (and in some cases de jure) part of the social licence to operate. And it’s only heating up. The ground swell of pressure is mounting from both the top-down (regulation) and bottom-up (customers), and will only continue.

In Australia, regulations to accelerate Scope 3 emissions are expected to come into force in mid 2024. Meanwhile, investors are increasingly requiring that companies disclose their supply chain’s emissions. With the very real threat of divestment and taxes looming, companies have billions of dollars of value at risk if they don’t act. At the same time, a huge swathe of suppliers will be forced to take action alongside these companies, and are willing to pay to ensure they maintain their contracts.

It’s not hard to see why Scope 3 emission reporting is set to be the next  ‘natural greenfield’ opportunity for businesses supporting the transition to net zero.

Scope 3 is the hardest nut to crack  

We have an unspoken mantra at AfterWork that the only problems worth solving are the really thorny ones. It’s not surprising that we love how Avarni is tackling the brazen Scope 3 beast head on. To date, most calculators  have focused on Scope 1 and 2 emissions, with Scope 3 emissions often tossed into the ‘too hard’ basket or the ‘we’ll get around to that later’ basket. The upshot being tremendous inaccuracies on net zero reporting; alongside the relative ease of skirting responsibility, while also eroding consumer trust. Avarni recognises cutting through the noise can only be achieved through a mixture of technology and ‘in the trenches’ hard work. The Avarni platform empowers businesses and their advisers with the tools to engage their supply chains directly and intimately; pairing this with a suite of AI-powered tools trained on $1.58 trillion of real company spend.

For years, Scope 3 emission calculations have remained an elusive piece of the net zero vision; with customers and advisers alike resonating with Avarni’s innovative approach to the problem. Further, news is spreading fast – with Avarni’s Scope 3 focus naturally lending itself to the inherent network effects in supply chains.

Working with the tide, not against it

As investors we love it when businesses have a razor sharp understanding of the role they play in the value chain, and where they can work with, rather than against, their peers to create the most value for customers. In Avarni’s case, the tremendous value they bring is as the Scope 3 supplier management platform. They recognise that when it comes to emissions management, the raw calculations are a commodity product, while data gathering and ingestion is the really meaty offer.  At a high level, the market currently segments itself into three tranches.

1. Carbon Consultants – to date, enterprises have leveraged the expertise of third party consultants and carbon accountants to help them manage their pathway to net zero. Though services heavy, and hence limited in scalability, this approach works and it’s hard to see a world in which these players disappear.

2. Lightweight SaaS tools – many calculators have come to market offering “instant emissions measurement”, yet they fail to engage with the complexities of the real world. Most often, they work through simple 1:1 modelling of financial data, leaving logic gaps. For example, did that flight you just took really contribute half the emissions because you bought it for 50% off?  

3. Carbon management and accounting platforms – these technology-led players offer full service platforms to calculate emissions, model reductions, and automate reporting. Reacting to the challenges of a pure SaaS approach, these players typically supplement their technology with in-house consulting services or focus on larger enterprises with dedicated sustainability teams.

Avarni’s key point of difference, and business model edge, is its partnership-led approach. They have deliberately chosen to work hand-in-glove with the largest consultancies tackling the net zero problem, equipping them with powerful tools to help improve their accuracy, efficiency and output. Some of their key initial partnerships include Schneider Electric, KPMG and Jacobs. In fact, KPMG referenced Avarni as a key player in both their 2022 and 2023 Impact Plans. We’ve seen momentum firsthand and look forward to seeing other large partners hop aboard the net zero train.

The challenges we saw

Can they cut through in a crowded market?

As Scope 3 heats up, there are more professional service and SaaS businesses flooding into this green opportunity space. Many competitors have chosen to take on the burden of fighting their way to success; by focusing on operating up and down the value chain (including providing professional services directly). In a sea of competition, we were most impressed with Avarni’s ability to carve out a well defined strategic niche. Their focus on working with existing professional service firms allows them to get further, faster – while also making it easier to become indispensable to the process.

On top of this, Avarni see themselves as in the business of ‘supplier mobilisation’, not just supplier engagement. Avarni provides suppliers a free profile on Avarni, that allows them to access full capabilities of calculation automation; as well as a data audit and reporting capabilities. This is a leadership move, while also providing robust network effects.

Is it too early for Avarni to succeed?

In Australia, penetration is currently small. Only around 43 companies (representing 22% of the ASX200) have a Scope 3 target and report Scope 3 emissions and none of them disclose their Scope 3 strategies. However, the pace of change is accelerating and those that choose not to act will get left behind. The Australian government is expected to introduce new reporting requirements that will come into effect by July 2024; starting with financial institutions and other large industries. This change in policy will give the Scope 3 decarbonisation movement a momentous and fast surge; and we believe the time is right to ride the wave.

How we built conviction

We were impressed by the team’s novel and collaborative approach to work within the existing ecosystem of decarbonisation solutions. Laser-like clarity on the value they add, and how that can complement existing solutions, sets Avarni up for accelerated distribution and rapid adoption. And that’s before we even take into consideration the increasing consumer, investor and regulatory pressure coming down the pipe. We’re excited to back Misha and Anuj and their bold vision to decarbonise supply chains; and believe the time is right to ride this greenwave to great heights. 

What we loved about the opportunity

Healthspan is as important as lifespan

Over the last century, we’ve made huge strides in increasing our lifespan - curing diseases, pioneering new surgeries, inventing vaccines, and improving access to care. Over the last 60 years, average lifespan globally has increased by 35%.

But as we’re now living longer, it’s become even more important to extend our healthspan - the number of years we have with a high level of functioning. We discuss this thematic in our recent exploration into the Future of Longevity. The stakes are high - a longer healthspan means having the energy to play with your grandchildren, travel in retirement, and live independently for longer. But half of the average human lifespan is now spent in degrees of poor health - almost 50% of Australians live with a chronic illness, and 30% have multiple chronic conditions2. 

Many gains in healthspan can be unlocked through preventative treatments and habitual behaviours - especially if they begin years before symptoms might start to appear. 80% of heart diseases and 40% of cancers can be prevented or delayed with early detection, intervention, and behavioural changes.

We’re hopeful that Everlab will usher in a new paradigm: medically guided preventative care that enables customers to actively extend their healthspan, reducing the burden of chronic illness on not only themselves, but also payers such as governments and insurers. 

Personalised and preventative health is coming into focus

Cult phenomenons such as Peter Attia’s Outlive and Andrew Huberman’s Huberman Lab Podcast have brought innovative and scientific health interventions out of niche subreddits such as r/biohacking r/longevity and into the mainstream consciousness.

Consumers are getting wiser and more motivated to take preventative action. We’re seeing more consumers educate themselves about their own health - using wearables such as Oura rings, Whoops, and Smart Watches to measure their sleep, steps, and heart rate variability (HRV); wearing continuous glucose monitors (CGMs) to better understand their insulin response to different foods; and experimenting with ice baths, infra-red saunas, and specialised diets such as Bryan Johnston’s Blueprint project.

While some of these ideas will always remain niche (we think there’s a capped market size of people willing to sit in an ice bath), being able to access a higher standard of concierge healthcare that provides diagnostics, continuous monitoring, timely access to specialists, and a long-term health coaching program is an idea that could gain mass appeal.

Several technological innovations make this standard of care - once only accessible for the extremely wealthy - now within reach for many more customers. Diagnostic tests have fallen dramatically in price, AI and automations can provide doctors with leverage and make them more efficient and effective, and apps can help deliver personalised prevention plans in a delightful digital product experience - one that combines medical insights with data from wearables. 

The challenges we saw

Is it possible for technology to scale quality healthcare?

Globally, hundreds of billions have been invested in digital healthcare companies - like Forward, Ezra, Babylon, and many more. Yet a generational healthcare company has yet to emerge - the way Google, Amazon, Meta, and Netflix have emerged for their respective categories.

It begs the question -  can healthcare companies scale with technology? Is the business model one that makes sense for venture capital?

Generally speaking, a few common elements make companies a good fit for venture capital investment: variable costs are low (e.g. there is very little incremental cost associated with selling an additional copy of software), gross margins are high, and revenue is recurring. This creates an opportunity for companies to reinvest their gross margin into quickly scaling their go-to-market and acquiring more customers. As the flywheel spins faster, the company builds defensibility - through network effects, economies of scale, or brand.

Compared to a B2B SaaS company, a consumer healthcare company does not fit this ‘mould’ as straightforwardly. Compared to pure software, Everlab’s product has more variable costs - the cost of diagnostic tests, healthcare professionals’ time, and physical clinics.

Our thesis is that although the cost to serve customers will be higher, Everlab will earn the right to capture some of the immense value it delivers through the protocol. The protocol extends beyond their concierge service and suite of diagnostic tests, but includes a data-driven personalised health plan, and will be delivered via a digital health app that is continuously tracking biomarkers and suggesting treatment strategies to optimise wellbeing and mitigate long-term risk of chronic disease.

In being first to market with this kind of service in Australia, Everlab has an opportunity to create sticky customers - by becoming the default source of truth for their patients’ health information, and partnering with them on their health journey over decades. This strong foundation of recurring revenue will enable Everlab to invest further in improving quality of care and building economies of scale - so it can deliver diagnostics and medical consults more cheaply and efficiently, expanding gross margins while delivering immense value.

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Questions we had for the team 

Can Everlab resonate beyond existing converts and resonate with a mass audience?

Once the pursuit of longevity was thought to be the domain of eccentric billionaires - who could afford personal trainers and chefs, saunas and ice baths, and cutting edge technologies.

They’ve been followed by a cohort of wellness and tech enthusiasts - the sort who can be spotted wearing continuous glucose monitors, who do intermittent fasting every week, and who love to talk about their sleep data. Generally, this cohort has high disposable incomes, free time on their hands, and already cares about their health and wellbeing.

To build a truly generational healthcare business, Everlab has to grow its addressable market beyond the already converted, and convince a mass audience to adopt their approach. Everlab has several strategies to do this over time: with content that educates the mass market, by making a premium experience more affordable through creating economies of scale, and by positioning itself as a thought leader in the preventative healthcare movement. 

In the long term, partnerships with payers such as governments and insurers may play a role. The burden of chronic diseases is already weighing on governments and insurers - the World Health Organisation estimates that the global cost of chronic diseases will total more US $47 trillion over the next two decades. Payers will be more incentivised than ever to ‘bend the curve’ of chronic disease in their ageing populations. In the long term, we would love to see governments partnering with companies like Everlab to encourage more people to take early, proactive steps - before they develop chronic diseases.

In the shorter term, we are already seeing forward-thinking insurers encourage their customers to seek preventative care, and provide subsidies and incentives for these products.

How we built conviction

Our investment in Everlab was a real vindication of our community-powered model. Sam has been a valued member of the AfterWork community since he was Head of Growth at Airwallex, and Marc joined the community soon after he moved to Sydney from Berlin.

We knew Sam and Marc were experienced entrepreneurs and operators, with a hunger in their belly to build something significant. Dr Stephen Lu as Chief Medical Officer adds a deep well of primary health experience and expertise, while Anshul Jain brings product and technical experience from Freelancer, Amazon, and several startups he has co-founded.

We built conviction on the investment over many months - partnering with them to iterate on several aspects of the business. In fact, Adrian was Everlab’s first customer in Sydney - helping to test out different service providers and improve the product. Although the product was still a prototype, the experience helped us to understand the value of diagnostic insights, continuous consultations with an excellent doctor - packaged in a welcoming customer experience that is improving at pace.

Everlab’s product and mission is already resonating. With over hundreds of members just weeks after launch, we’re excited to be partnering with Everlab as they transform thousands of lives through preventive and personalised healthcare.

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Gilgamesh and Qin Shi Huang, the first emperor of China, were both spellbound by the pursuit. Gilgamesh’s gruelling quest for eternal life ended in tears, and little to show for it. While Qin Shi Huang upped his family's obsession with immortality by putting out an executive order to search for a potion that would give him eternal life. Despite this, and his many other wishful, weird and wacky attempts to live forever, he died relatively young compared to his ancestors.

Flash forward to 2023 and the quest for eternal life is hotting up. Billionaires have been particularly forthcoming at throwing their weight (and dollars) behind the pursuit of long, glorious life. As is often the case, the tech bros are fast followers to billionaires, in a way that is ingratiating, self aggrandising and frankly, off putting.

There’s a bit of collective cringe that comes from watching the tech community follow the optimising obsession that rich people set in motion. Especially when it reads like a satire. Take the Rejuvenation Olympics; a public leaderboard where you share longevity hacks, boast about your biological age and win by ‘never crossing the finish line’. Your biological age (not your chronological age) is what age you are according to your organ health, epigenetic gene expression, immune health and more. To compete, participants must submit their biological age, via a test kit made by TruDiagnostic.

Though a seemingly harmless initiative with a Monty Python twist, this sort of shameless longevity flexing puts a large chunk of the population off optimising their health in simple, meaningful ways. And ultimately, for longevity to become a truly venture backable industry, it must move beyond billionaires and their early adopter fan clubs.  But as with most industries, we need the outliers to drive innovation that can trickle into the mainstream. And we need it now as health is going backwards and chronic illness is spreading. In America, the number of 50+ year olds with at least one chronic disease is estimated to almost double from 72 million to 143 million by 2050.

Billionaires eyeing eternal youth

The focus on longevity comes at a poignant time in the venture ecosystem. To date, the majority of unicorns have focused on relatively surface trimmings (we’re looking at you Facebook) while human and planetary health deteriorate. Perhaps part of the interest in longevity comes from a growing fatigue at such triflings and a desire to point our collective intelligence and efforts towards something more meaningful. A less generous take would highlight the dizzying levels of hubris behind the desire to live forever, as well as the irresistible challenge of cracking a nigh impossible nut. Cringe factor aside, we believe helping people expand their health span and feel good for longer is a problem worth working on; and makes a nice change from the spade of startups setting out to optimise eyeballs. It’s also fertile ground to be frollicking in. The longevity industry is projected to be worth $44.2 billion by 2030, up from $25.1 billion in 2020. And by 2050, 1 in 3 people will be 50+ (up from 1 in 4 today). This rapid growth will have a significant impact on everything from job creation to healthcare to goods and services. Longevity might be a meme paradise right now, but we believe there is an opportunity to build something large and generational, with the right idea, team and timing.

Before we go on, let’s put some parameters around a very expansive topic. There’s lots of intersection between healthcare, longevity, anti-ageing and broader societal wellness. For our article, we’re primarily talking about longevity, but will dip into the other segments where appropriate. Additionally, while many startups are focusing on longevity for both people and the planet, we will be focusing our efforts on human longevity.

Historically, anything that brushes ‘healthcare’ feels like a poisoned chalice. There’s been $100 billion deployed into digital health since 2010 and little to show for it. Investors are wary and carry noticeable scar tissue after getting an unwelcome taste of just how complex the industry is. In America, there is a convoluted multi-payer system, an entrenched medical establishment and layered incentive structures that complicate behaviour change. While in Australia, it's unclear who will pay for new approaches to health and longevity. 

In the past, the medical establishment has received tech and VC involvement in their space with an overt eye roll. This is partly because of the pie-eyed optimism new entrants bring around how simple it will be to change the system; as well as an overly inflated view on the skillsets they have. For example, a tech outsider sees the opportunity to screen, prevent and digitise; not recognising it's the execution (not the insight) that’s the hard part. Optimism gets slandered as ignorance and progress grinds to a halt. Previous patterns aside, it’s clear that the answer to longevity does not lie in the tech community coming in all guns blazing; rather a collaborative approach that embraces a knowledge base that runs deep.

What changes are afoot?

Longevity Participation

As frustration with our clogged medical system grows, more people are taking their health into their own hands. This is fuelled by increasing access to information, as well as scientific influencers, like Andrew Huberman and Peter Attia, who talk openly and precisely about ways to improve both health and longevity. As well as the spade of billionaires sharing their personal longevity hacks in the public arena. Because of this, taking care of yourself and the pursuit of long life has become a supreme flex; it requires intelligence and resources and accordingly has become a source of dinner party fodder for the elite and aspirational. The final thrust behind this trend is the increasing ability to attain hyper personalised and tailored treatments. Once you have a program designed to your needs, with precision, adherence and positive outcomes increase. 

Preventative Care is Hot-  An ageing population is driving our healthcare system towards a crisis point. A shift to preventative care gives us the ability to foresee and predict illnesses before they strike. There’s a large role for diagnostics here, which can act as a crystal ball to our future selves to help us get ahead of problems before they happen. It’s very hard to contemplate ageing and decay; and any tools that can make this real for us create the impetus to act while we can. Not only is this a more effective approach; it’s proven to be more economical across many chronic diseases. Slowly but surely, insurance providers, as well as the government, are coming to the preventative party.  The trend will continue to grow as hardware costs come down and more people take charge of their own wellbeing, eschewing a traditional doctor-led approach to health; something we should welcome as our current systems buckle under pressure. That said, our health care system is not currently set up to manage preventative care; which makes the space particularly ripe for vertically integrated startups ready to take a meaningful bite out of the preventative pie. 

Or Not?

It’s worth noting that not everyone is hot on diagnostics. In fact, some of the loudest opponents are radiologists themselves - even though they stand to gain the most from a culture obsessed with scans.The first reason is false positives (or negatives) as they only measure you at a moment in time. Further, diagnostics reduce human health to binary ‘good’ and ‘bad’ when in reality there’s lots of grey area that only years of practice can pick up on. And most importantly, when you rely on a diagnostic, you miss the broader clues and signs that make up a person’s health. Of course, you can retest; but then the cost and stress threshold gets called into question. Often there’s months in between repeat scans - which is plenty of time to crumble into a pit of despair. Even waiting for results of scans can be nerve wracking and induce  'scanxiety'. Then of course there is radiation exposure to contend with, and some cancers (like pancreatic and oesophagus) are hard to pick up on a scan at all.

The medical establishment is quick to label private diagnostic companies ‘fishing trips’ where they go hunting for problems and question the real improvement to life these tools bring. They’re also quick to point out that some problems are bad to catch early on as they should not be treated - leaving you with a stressed patient who lives with the uncomfortable knowledge that they are degenerating. Even diagnostics, which seem like a no brainer, are contentious.  If you find something, your health insurance goes up and once you’re in the system, a battery of further tests are often required and before you know it, things snowball into what’s called a ‘cascade of care’. It’s a lot of money, time and energy. And when the tab is picked up by the taxpayer, that’s a problem for all of us.

From Hacks to Habit

Right now there are a lot of silver bullets that promise quick fixes to prevent ageing. Unsurprisingly, this naive approach is as short-sighted as it is futile. What’s more likely to have lasting results is when an individual experiments, trials and tests to identify what works for them and then incorporates that into their routine. Easier said than done. Behaviour change is no joke. Especially when results are hard to see. We’ve seen the same dynamic shift in performance marketing (what started as an obsession with growth hacks is now falling in line with a more holistic understanding of marketing fundamentals) and even skincare ageing (we’re less interested in miracle creams and more aware of total wellness from hydration to sleep to exercise). While people may have more data at their fingertips, thanks to wearables and the quantified self movement, we also know that over reliance on these doesn’t unlock health. It’s important to know what’s going on, big picture, but then get on with a life well lived instead of agonising over minute variances in your personal health dashboard. Already the Apple watch has introduced a ‘journal’ app that allows millions to track their health, sleep and breathwork and observe their impact in real time.

Health Span > Life Span

As we move towards preventative care, we’re also making a collective shift towards measuring the quality of years lived, not just increasing the number. That means years living without chronic or debilitating disease and decline. After all, there’s not much point living longer if we’re not living well. In 2021, it was determined that the last 9 years of someone’s life was spent in a state of deterioration. The goal is to reduce this number; and tracking healthspan is the first step towards progress. In theory, a focus on preventative care can improve health span; which in turn improves life span. In the EU, this metric is established and tracked by the European Commission.

Beyond Biohacking

In light of the above, longevity is often misunderstood to be the extreme wellness and biohacking obsessions of the elite. Things like intense food restrictions, hyper personalised exercise routines, draconian sleep regimes and a never-ending cocktail of supplements are a surface-level approach to longevity. Where things get really interesting, and where the category is evolving, goes far beyond. We’re seeing impact at cellular health and DNA level, including things like biological reprogramming, reconstituting human blood and gene therapy.  

• Cellular level - as we get older a variety of issues with cells appear. They  either stop or are slow to divide, struggle to repair themselves by cleaning out any damaged parts, or are forced to carry on functioning with deteriorated mitochondria (the powerhouse of the cell). Many biotech startups are addressing the issue of ageing from this microscopic level; and addressing the various calamities that can happen to cells one by one.

• Gene level -  One of the key reasons we age is the protective caps at the end of our chromosomes, called telomeres and how they shorten over time. When they fully disintegrate, our DNA becomes damaged. A field of Telomere Therapeutics has emerged to focus on stopping that shortening and treating age-related disease.  

Red Tape Rebellion

Right now, in America, a drug cannot get regulatory approval for longevity or slowing the ageing process; it has to directly take on a known disease associated with ageing - like dementia or Parkinson's. Accordingly, a lot of companies are approaching drug development and subsequent marketing efforts around specific indications. There is hot debate about the ethics of this. Many feel that drugs that improve overall quality of life, while helping prevent the onset of decay, should be allowed to exist in a class of their own. Unsurprisingly, some companies choose to get political and are pushing to get this classification overturned, while others focus their efforts on creative ways around.

Who will win in this opportunity space?

Addressing Elitism

Even before we layer in the costs to access new longevity solves, rich people already live longer. In fact, men in poor parts of England are predicted to live almost a decade less than those who live in the wealthy areas. Startups that win will be able to find ways to scale beyond an elite few; and lead a conversation about the equity of ageing.

DeSci

Decentralised Science builds on citizen science and open science to change how science is developed and value is shared. Simplistically, there are separate ‘channels’ dedicated to different aspects of scientific development; from research, to peer review and to drug development. Many of these DAOs have a ‘build in public’ mantra which is a fundamental break from the traditional biotech model. Winning startups will find ways to develop a new ownership and distribution structure, while accelerating the discovery and adoption of scientific gains.

Trusted Medical Concierge

With newness comes both trepidation and excitement. While there will always be early adopters (especially when there are bragging rights involved) companies that can invite people into the longevity space in a warm, personal way will see success. Though we may be recognising AI can deliver better outcomes than humans in many instances in the medical field; the reassurance of a real, live human goes a long way when chartering new and delicate ground.

The Intersection of Software and Science

To help hasten the adoption of discoveries, and make them more accessible, startups that win will look more like software companies than biotech companies. This is really about taking a lot of the massive inroads made in labs and using software to shorten the pathway to real impact. Things so familiar to the tech world, like workflow optimisation, big data, AI modelling and mass sharing and learning are now becoming embedded in next generation longevity startups. Software’s playbook can accelerate adoption and outcomes of the most promising discoveries on the planet.

A Healthy Ecosystem

Our health is an accumulation of all we do; what we eat, how we sleep, how stressed we are, the connection we feel and how we move our bodies. Startups that recognise where they fit in a person’s life and take into account the mental, physical, social and spiritual components that they operate within, will find greater success. In fact, it is estimated that only 20% of the modifiable contributors to an individual’s health are related to medical care - with non-clinical factors (like diet, exercise, mental health, social connection, sense of purpose) driving the rest. The Okinawa Centenarian Study, which investigates 100 year olds, backs this up. They found that physical exercise, a healthy diet, a sense of belonging and rituals, a supportive network and sense of purpose all contribute meaningfully to long life. Things like Tovertafel, a game-inspired therapy that allows those in care to interact and play together is proven to reduce sadness and increase social connection in adults living with dementia.

It’s A Group Effort

The answer to better, longer life cannot lie with one startup, it’s about all of us collectively reimagining what living longer could look like. Longevity startups are just one part of this pie. It’s about how we design our cities, rejig employment practices, rework transport solutions, tailor consumer products and create new offers around things like finance and insurance; all wrapped in a narrative that encourages us to reimagine what it is to age and what contributions older people can have to our society. This will require both deep collaboration and bold imagination. 

“Maximizing healthspan is a 'Moonshot' of our age. Like the 1960s Apollo expedition, we need major, coordinated, mission-driven efforts from government and the private sector. But in return, expect profound economic and societal benefits. Our population's health and wellbeing is one of our most important, but undervalued, strategic assets”  says recent Melbourne arrival, Stephen Johnston, who founded and sold global startup community Ageing2.0 and now works on healthy longevity for SOMPO Digital Lab.

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Who is Currently Making Waves?

There are some players who are taking an existing service/treatment and making it more accessible, while others are on the cutting edge of longevity. Here is a selection of businesses that are creating heat and moving the category forward.

Tomorrow Biostasis - this cryopreservation startup is pioneering an advanced medical procedure that puts someone into a ‘biological pause’ after their legal death. This works on the premise that there will be future technologies that can revive us.  This Berlin startup offers its freezing and storage services in Switzerland.

Loyal - This biotech is taking the concept of long life to our four legged friends. While critics say this enters the longevity conversation from a place of privilege, advocates argue that it’s faster and cheaper to get things right on animals. This could actually be of greater benefit to humans as discoveries can be bridged across species quickly. Currently, Loyal have two drugs in development. The first targets cellular mechanism and glucose metabolism in large and giant-breed dogs, who have considerably shorter lifespans than smaller doggos (something you rarely see within species). The second drug targets metabolic fitness in dogs of any breed and size, in order to replicate the same effect on lifespan that calorie restriction does in mice.  Through our investment in Lyka, who improve a dog’s lifespan through nutrition, we have seen the huge appeal of doggo longevity.

Spring Discovery - this biotech-meets-software company raised $22 million and have built a powerful tool called MegaMap. Designed to ‘give scientists superpowers’, it allows them to see how cells behave across multiple conditions; overlaid with the impact of drugs and compounds already in market. Powered by machine learning, this tool allows scientists to see patterns and get to answers fast.

Epiterna: This startup is focusing on accessible ways to improve lifespan; by focusing on chemical compounds already approved for us in humans, dogs and cats. Innovating around small molecule drugs was a deliberate choice to ensure their products become available to all people, not just billionaires.

Everlab - is a privatised primary care system to take health from reactive to preventative. The Everlab protocol is an annual membership offering diagnostics and personalised interventions based on patient history, risks, and goals. It helps people take control of their health, understand personal risk factors, detect disease early and find ways to improve quality of life and performance.

Gene and Cell Corrections — at the gene level, Telomere Therapeutics is developing a telomerase gene therapy that counteracts telomere shortening and can treat age-related diseases. While at the cellular level, Cellvie is developing technology that will allow therapeutic mitochondria transplantation. This technology introduces functional mitochondria into organs with failing mitochondria, with the goal of increasing the survival of tissues from injury and may reinvigorate ageing tissues in general.

VitaDao - this DAO, with a focus on longevity research, recently closed a $4.1 million round of funding; with participation from bigwigs like Pfizer. The community chooses what to research and incubate, with the view to commercialising the IP discovered. Even the capital raise needed community approval before coming into effect.

Adam Erectile Tracker - though it’s likely making waves because it sounds preposterous, this wearable ring tracks nightly erections as a precursor to overall health. The science goes something like this... Each night, a man should have about 3-5 erection episodes - lasting around 1.503 hours. If they don't, it means reduced tissue oxygenation and increased penile fibrosis. This can lead to erectile dysfunction and are also linked to cardiovascular disease, diabetes and hormone issues.

Regeneration & Regrowth Startups: LyGenesis uses cell therapy to regrow organs and eGenesis creates cells capable of turning into organs. Both startups aim to help the 20 people that die each day from waiting for an organ transplant; in the US alone. Similarly, Cellbricks developed a 3D printer for artificially made organs and human tissue and sees a future where biofabrication is a common medical practice. Finally, BioSplice uses splicing techniques to assist tissue-level regeneration to treat cancer, osteoarthritis, and other diseases. 

Saint Haven:  This private wellness club in Melbourne is dedicated to holistic health, longevity and reverse-ageing. Property magnate Tim Gurner built Saint Haven with the goal of combining discoveries from his personal health journey and global travels. The club has a suite of services available to members, like hyperbaric chambers, hot and cold thermal pools, vitamin-C showers, a meditation cave, IV drips, cryotherapy, breathwork, nutrition, anti-ageing and strengthening training. Members are encouraged to wear an Oura ring so their health can be monitored, and have access to a personal wellness coach to keep them on track. The price tag means the proposition appeals to the elite, bound by a mindset of wanting to live their best life and optimise their wellbeing.

10 years from now

Fortunately, we see a broader definition of health taking centre stage; with startups that look across the pillars of ageing cropping up to tackle things like loneliness, finding meaningful work and living with a sense of purpose. This will mean more collaboration between industries; and more unlikely partnerships that bridge seemingly disparate worlds. Critically, we will see ‘old people’ more intertwined in society. This will manifest as senior citizens staying employed for longer, better integrated aged-care facilities and mobility solutions that keep seniors capable for longer. 

At the same time, we will start to see a move towards personalised medicine. For the wealthy, this will be the only form of medicine. This new gold standard will combine diagnostics with a health coach to keep you on track, while also integrating with real world decision points and incentives. Imagine getting health nudges at the supermarket, or tokens for walking to work, or smart devices that monitor you early, often and discreetly, apps that keep you mentally fit and prevent cognitive decline, rewards for following a health plan and perks for keeping your social connections tight. On top of this, we will have broadly reached consensus on the goldilocks level of knowledge needed to optimise our health; and capture data to enable us to find simple ways to boost our longevity. This will move longevity from a single-minded pursuit to a way of life available to more people. Once studies can back up smaller longevity hacks, critical players like insurers and governments will get involved and help make them more accessible.

We won't have made a huge inroad on eternal life, but we’ll be living better quality lives for longer. And the early adopters and wealthy who were able to benefit from personalised medicine will be nudging our public health system and insurers to adopt many of its principles.

50 years from now

Technology has already doubled life expectancy over the last 150 years. And as we get closer to curing chronic illness and stopping or improving the reproduction of cells (the two greatest contributors to death), it feels safe to assume we will remain on a positive trajectory. That plus the fact that there are already some organisms out there, like turtles, that can theoretically live forever - assuming they can steer clear of predators!

To get this right, the two things that must hold true are that we’ve a) found a way to make these discoveries available to everyone and b) found a way to think long-term, holistically and collaboratively across many industries, from our employment, to our family structures, to our education systems and of course our environment.

If we really manage to live for a lot longer, then we’ve got a lot of head scratchers to resolve. Most critically, what does life in a post ageing world look like? 

• It’s easy to see a real risk of economic and planetary disaster. On the economy side, we’re already seeing traces of disaster in Japan: a shrinking labour force, more strain on social services, less taxes and a need for even more resources. While on the planetary side, we’re not able to support infinite life. How will we actually be able to survive, in a sustainable way?

• We will also see the divide between rich and poor become untenable, with ageing deserts and longevity oases existing in equal measure. As these divides exacerbate, eventually a boiling point will emerge. If we take this to its most extreme, we might see a world portrayed in sci-fi like Altered Carbon, where the rich can transport their brain from healthy body to healthy body, thereby living forever.

• Then of course, there are political consequences. The implications of an ageing population on democracies are well studied; some even posing the thought experiment of placing an age cap on voting eligibility. After all, shouldn't the youth get the most say over the planet and society they live in? What happens to democracy if we’re all living to 100?

• If death becomes rare, will we all become terrified of dying? How does that change our appetite for risk and danger?

• What does a life look like if we are thinking in millennia, not minutes? How does that change how we think about spending our time, approaching study, committing to a career, consuming resources, finding meaning, entering relationships and creating family units?

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1. How did you two meet?

Misha: We met in high school as part of the same year level. Although we didn’t hang out much in early high school, our interests began to cross over a lot more in “Industrial Technology” class, where we had to submit a large technical project for our final exam. After high school, we stayed connected as part of the same friendship group, and began working together on various projects and startup ideas in 2017.

The first startup we worked on together was a dating app allowing you to join location based events and match with people at it! Unfortunately with this idea we had yet to learn the golden rule, “build it and they absolutely will not come”, as the app didn’t really go anywhere. We went through a few more ideas including a location based flight tracking app, virtual queuing during COVID, and eventually decided to join Antler in early 2021 to tackle a new idea.

2. Talk us through your journey…How did Avarni go from an idea to a living, breathing thing?

Misha: Avarni as it looks today is the result of brute force iteration. The company started with little more than a desire to find a compelling, real problem to solve in a space that interested us, sustainability. Our original idea was a bank card that would estimate the emissions of your personal spending, and give you options to offset it. 

In the very early days, we were simply trying to do a “geography play” by finding a compelling idea that seemed to have grown legs overseas and could be replicated in Australia. Unfortunately, the unit economics of this idea were shocking, so we pivoted to offering the same product, but as an API for banks to implement instead with their customers. This idea made far more sense economically, and didn’t require spending a fortune on marketing to get people switching to a different bank card. However, the excitement we generated initially didn’t stick around for long. We found what we were offering sat squarely in the “nice to have” bucket rather than a “must have” which solves a real business problem for customers.

We had simultaneously begun experimenting with a “business product for carbon tracking”. This initial idea evolved into what Avarni has become today. Our first user was Jon Collins from KPMG, who we are still close with today and who played a pivotal role in sharing the insights needed to build our product. From this point, we worked hard to get Avarni in front of anyone who would listen, and now build our product tirelessly on their feedback. We have and are continuing to make mistakes and blunders along the way, but figuring it all out is what makes the process worth it!

Avarni friends and co-founders Anuj Paudel and Misha Cajic

3. What was the biggest barrier to getting your business off the ground? How did you overcome it?

Misha: We needed to get over the engineering/product building mindset of making something perfect before putting it in front of people. There’s no point making something perfect if you don’t understand whether it's what people actually want or need. The way I overcame this habit was by simply recognising that we were wasting our time by not spending it in front of users. We also had to move beyond the fear that our idea of the perfect solution may be wrong.

4. What inspired you to make Avarni work? Was there a pivotal moment where you were struck with a certain clarity? Or did you systematically work through the decision?

Misha: It was certainly a process involving a lot of conversations with many people over many calls. It was tedious, but seeing someone react positively for the first time to something you’ve built is a high that as a business owner you’ll just continue to chase. For the space Avarni operates in, seeing our investors, advisors and customers get excited about where we are headed simply furthers that feeling of clarity.

5. Outside of your company, what are you into right now?

Misha: I’m fortunate enough to live close to the beach in Sydney, so I love to start my mornings off slowly with a swim and reading a book, no matter the season! I’m certainly in a phase of my life where I like to read books which I can practically apply to my life to become more emotionally intelligent, further my self-understanding, and trick myself into following the habits I want to build. I am also a huge aviation nerd – this probably comes from travelling to see my family in Europe so much as a child which are my happiest childhood memories. When I can, I make use of my private pilot’s licence and go for a fly around Sydney.

Anuj: I've been delving deep into cold water immersion, exploring different approaches including the Wim Hof method. While I haven't mustered the courage to fully embrace an ice bath just yet, I've been taking gradual steps in that direction including cold showers and dipping into freezing cold lakes. I’ve also rekindled my passion for flamenco guitar which I find to be a great way to destress and challenge myself creatively.

6.  Who or what inspires you and keeps you focused on your north star?

Misha: Our team, customers, investors, and everybody else who believes in what we’re doing by spending their time and/or money with us to make Avarni’s goals a reality. I’m humbled that they’ve placed their trust in us, and have stuck with us through the highs and lows of the journey including all our mistakes. I am endlessly grateful for my parents who have given me the opportunity to find my own way. I feel like I owe it to them to not squander that opportunity with mediocrity.

7. Talk us through a standard day in your life as a founder…
   

Misha: As one of our advisors wisely told us, as a founder you are the leader, manager and expert. I try everyday to have a healthy balance of all three by setting the company vision and reiterating it to the team and our investors whilst helping others buy into it. It’s my job to bring the energy whilst making sure we’re focused on improving company processes to ensure the team is working happily, effectively and with purpose. I undeniably love working in the “expert” bucket by remaining getting hands on with solutioning and coding. It’s a constant battle to find the best way to organise your day as a founder, but I’m getting better every day. The biggest challenge is finding time for anything other than the company, because it’s absolutely essential to proactively do so.

8. What unusual or childhood experiences prepared you for what you do today?
   

Misha: As a pre-teen I decided against spending time with peers from school, instead opting to spend my time in online communities of flight simulation nerds of which I am a proud member. One of my biggest joys was downloading and installing “add-ons” for Microsoft Flight Simulator X to make its landscapes look better. When the opportunity to join a team of mostly rookies learning how to build those add-ons came about in one of my online communities, I jumped at it. I became so obsessed with making these add-ons, that soon enough I had the Orbx founders, Alex Goff and Ken Hall, to help mentor me. Alex taught me how to build my first 3D models, and I remember the moment Ken suggested that I should begin selling my add-ons, as well as my reaction – “No, it’s not good enough to sell”. Thankfully he didn’t listen to me, and just over a year after beginning I put my first flight simulator add-on – “MCA Designs North American Airstrips Volume 1” – up for sale. Ken was my first customer. Soon after, I joined Orbx as an “indie developer”, entirely choosing and running my own projects, and publishing those add-ons through the very same company that I had been a huge fan of just a year and a half earlier. I released over a dozen products individually and in partnership with other developers over seven years, with the products I worked on generating over 60,000 sales. That undeniably made me realise that I could pave my own way, and made me hungry to take it to the next level with a new venture.

Anuj: My time as a high school tutor really opened my eyes to effective long-term leadership, emphasising the importance of empowering others. I vividly remember a moment when I was scolded for doing too much of the work myself, which hindered the learning process for my students. It’s still something I’m working on but leading a startup helps me satisfy my hands-on nature while also providing others with learning opportunities, which is crucial for the company's growth. It also made me realise the power of active learning compared to passive learning, which has given me more conviction that building a startup was the right move for my personal growth.

9. What is your golden rule that you try to live and work by?

Misha: Whatever you think you know, you’re probably wrong.

Anuj: As someone who tends to overthink, I've always struggled with the concept of taking action when you have only 70% of the information, but I've come to realise that it's essential to embrace.

10. What advice would you have for anyone looking to take the plunge?

Misha: I think the advice of “Don’t go into business with a friend” is ridiculous. Knowing the other people you go into business with well and having a deep amount of trust that you can work through problems you’ll face together in a healthy way is essential. Starting and running a business is an emotional journey and I can’t imagine not having someone that I can share the highs with and lean on when things get difficult.

Anuj: It's definitely a rollercoaster ride, and it's not a short journey. I'd advise against expecting to hit the bullseye on your initial attempt solely through research and contemplation. You need to have the confidence to introduce a partially developed idea into the market and prioritise the collection of authentic feedback and valuable insights. Trust that this feedback will catalyse a market-ready product.

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